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Thread: Would love input: Am Std vs Whirlpool

  1. #1
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    Would love input: Am Std vs Whirlpool

    Hi,

    Based in Atlanta.

    I have been reading everything, but really started from zero knowledge. I would so appreciate input.

    After 23 years the ole 3 T Trane air conditioner is shot. I am taking the opportunity to replace both air and furnace, will be split system. I would like high efficiency and other perks are nice, if worth money. The area being serviced is the downstairs, approximately 1,426 sq. feet. Actually, the old unit still cooled and heated okay, but was really inefficient.

    As a side note, the upstairs is about 1,280 sq. feet. I have a 2 T Rudd condenser, Right now seems to be working well.

    Option I:

    From my maintenance team - (not that happy with their work, another post)

    American Standard 14

    4A7B4036E1 - installer said it was new, introduced to meet new tax break - 16 seer 3 Ton outdoor condenser , R41aA

    Matching coil

    Freedom 80, 80,000 BTU single stage furnace with high efficiency motor (he did not give me number)

    Option II:
    From a company highly recommended by a trustworthy friend:

    Whirlpool condenser 2.5 T 16 seer WAC4630A - I think is single stage (not gold series as gold only come in whole tons. Single Stage.

    WGFM295070V4C - Gold Series Furnace

    WCC3642P4C - Evaporator coils.

    Life time warranty on parts and labor from company.


    I probably would go with the second option, cause I like the dealer much better, plus there are many other guarantees.

    But I have not idea about the systems.

    Please advise and thanks !!

  2. #2
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    For equipment, I would go with Am Std if the dealers were equal. But if you can't trust that dealer, go with the other
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  3. #3
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    I saw a Whirlpool unit for the first time at a Distributor today, it's an Amana/Goodman unit. Is the cost the same for both units? Why the drop from 3 to 2.5 ton. Did they do a load calc and determine the 3 ton you had for 23 years was over sized or is he going off square foot? I wouldn't buy from people you aren't happy with so maybe a third bid. American Standard is a very good unit but you need to trust the contractor. Just my 2 cents.
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome!

  4. #4
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    Thread Starter

    A little more info

    Am. Standard dealer, said, only after I asked. That they would do the load calculation if I signed the contract. But he said they were going off the original equipment being 3 T.

    The whirlpool guy, at least measure the house, not a formal calculation, but he said the standard lines you do not like.

    My feeling is, it is 1400 sq feet, not 5,000. So can I really be that off with 2.5?? or I can ask for 3 T.

    Is whirlpool a bad system.

    Thanks, just a gal trying to make a decent decision.

  5. #5
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    I would still try to get a 3rd estimate. You have time the unit is still cooling so take your time and make a wise decission. Ask around and see who your friends, family and co-workers use. If the 3 ton cooled good, unless I do a complete load calculation that convinces me to go with a smaller unit, why would I install something smaller. You have to figure your house is 23 years older and unless you have changed windows, doors ,updated insulation etc I would lean more toward staying with a 3 ton.
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome!

  6. #6
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    Find someone to do a load calculation first. Everybody else is just guessing about size. What else are they guessing about?

    My Myrtle Beach SC house is 2,000 sq. ft. 2 tons does it all.

    I did a load calculation.
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  7. #7
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    Kevin O'Neill
    Find someone to do a load calculation first. Everybody else is just guessing about size. What else are they guessing about?
    +++++1
    No load calc no contract. Do not accept anything less.
    Good Things Come To Those Who Wait, But Only the Things Left Over By Those Who Hustle.

    Abraham Lincoln

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Neill View Post
    Find someone to do a load calculation first. Everybody else is just guessing about size. What else are they guessing about?

    My Myrtle Beach SC house is 2,000 sq. ft. 2 tons does it all.

    I did a load calculation.
    Lean towards smaller side of the calc for longer run times. Even better, consider multi stage units.

    Definitely get variable speed ECM blower.

    WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU NEED 80MBTU FURNACE TO HEAT 1400 square feet in Atlanta!! 60mbtu heats 3500 sf in upstate NY! Don't need load calc to be pretty sure that's grossly oversized.
    Early Adopter round is OPEN - https://www.hvac20.com/earlyadopters.html HVAC 101 free pdf - http://bit.ly/HVAC101File1118

  9. #9
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    Thread Starter

    Leaning towards the whirlpool, mostly cause of the guy

    Thanks good comments.

    The system is not working now. (I mistyped) I have my ceiling fans running full force.

    The windows have all been updated to double pane, and house is not drafty. Actually, the whirlpool guy recommended a 2 T Armana, but I said I did not want to lower it that much, so he selected the 2.5 T whirlpool.

    I am leaning towards the whirlpool. So I would like to know if someone has had experience with this model.

    I have a call into my neighbors installer. He does carrier + others. I will ask him how he calculates size. He put 3 T in. She did not know how he determined size. She said she just trusted him. The unit is HUGE. I bet he just replaced same size.

  10. #10
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    lulu

    post mdl numbers of furnace and evap coil, thermostat for AmStd system.

    does either system qualify for tax credit?

    for hotlanta, you need correctly sized condenser with good dehumidification.

    IMO

  11. #11
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    Thread Starter

    Unit numbers

    I asked him for the numbers, and this was his response:

    Condenser - 4A7B4036E1 - installer said it was new, introduced to meet new tax break - 16 seer 3 Ton outdoor condenser , R41aA

    Indoor : 4TXCB004CC3

    Furnace: UD1B080A9H3

    Freedom 80, 80,000 BTU single stage furnace with high efficiency motor (he did not give me number) link: http://www.americanstandardair.com/H...dom80HESS.aspx

    Both packages are Tax Credit worthy.

    He gave me a certificate of product rating:

    Cooling capacity(Btuh) 33600
    EER rating (cooling) 13
    SEER rating (cooling) 16

    I guess this means the furnace on its own does not qualify for the tax credit, but the cooling unit does.

  12. #12
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    I installed whirlpools for four years straight and I did not have any problems except with their evaperator coils. I do like their high efficient furnaces but they are definetly cheaper made than the American Standard. I don't have alot of bad things to say about Whirlpool but In my own house I wuld go with the AS!! The most important part is that it is installed properly. I can make a piece of Junk work like a gem!!

  13. #13
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    lulu

    I agree with AirMovers. I like the AmStd equipment better and it does qualify for tax credit. I would verify that three ton is the correct condenser size especially since this is a main floor zone that has a separate upstairs zone. what thermostat was quoted?

    IMO
    Good Luck!

    3447047 Active Systems AMERICAN STANDARD 14 AMERICAN STANDARD, INC. 4A7B4036E1 4TXCB004CC3 *UD1B080A9H3 33600 13.00 16.00

  14. #14
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    Thread Starter

    Another Contractor

    The Am Std. guy did not give me a thermostat number....just said....new digital thermostat.

    I called another company just now. I was nice, but said specifically I did not want a quote just based on what I had and wanted an analysis. She assured me that would happen. They sell Trane, and I am not sure what else.

  15. #15
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    Whirlpool was made by Allied, the Lennox division that makes the non Lennox brands like Armstrong, Ducane, etc. As was pointed out, they are now on the Amana line from Goodman.

    My concern would be warranty & part availability. Since they are just a name made by someone else, what happens if a non dealer wants to service you and get a warranty part. What happens in a few years if they switch mfrs again? Will parts be readily available for all 3 manufacturers?

  16. #16
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    good information

    That is good info about whirlpool history. Not sure why they would not have parts though. If I went with this company with the whirlpool or amana, would probably use the company as maintenance as well. They give a lifetime warranty on compressor and heat exchanger. And I am not sure what this is, says "lifetime parts and labor to original home owner" if you use their maintenance program.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulu123 View Post
    The area being serviced is the downstairs, approximately 1,426 sq. feet. Actually, the old unit still cooled and heated okay, but was really inefficient.

    As a side note, the upstairs is about 1,280 sq. feet. I have a 2 T Rudd condenser, Right now seems to be working well.
    Why would the downstairs unit need to be larger than the unit upstairs? The unit upstairs handles about 90% of the homes attic load and works fine with a 2 ton on an area that is 90% as large as the downstairs? Think about it.

    Also, I have found that a significant portion of the heat entering the downstairs attic drifts up to the upstairs area and is actually handled by the upstairs unit. Pay for a heat load on the entire home. If it comes out to 3.5 ton total or less, I would recommend a 1.5 ton for the downstairs. Most contractors are scared to downsize and right size air conditioning. SEE: http://www.michiganheat.com/epa-facts/016.pdf
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    NEVER STOP LEARNING.

  18. #18
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    As to brand...See the current thead...Speak no evil policy?
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    NEVER STOP LEARNING.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulu123 View Post
    That is good info about whirlpool history. Not sure why they would not have parts though. If I went with this company with the whirlpool or amana, would probably use the company as maintenance as well. They give a lifetime warranty on compressor and heat exchanger. And I am not sure what this is, says "lifetime parts and labor to original home owner" if you use their maintenance program.
    Lulu I am an Independent contractor in Ct and I do alot of spec homes and custom new construction homes for a couple of really good builders and I stopped using Whirlpool because of the parts and the very few locations I culd get parts. Even the place that sold me the equipment was terrible at stocking parts and there wasn't many places to go and get them. I am using Payne now on alot of my spec jobs and also my own house. Payne is made by Carrier and it is builders grade but installed properly it is just as good as a carrier minus the flashy cabinet and super warranty but when the heat or A/C are running tell me how you can tell the difference? I waited almost two weeks for a circuit board for a gas furnace from tradewinds and lets just say I lost that customer!

  20. #20
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    *

    Why would the downstairs unit need to be larger than the unit upstairs? The unit upstairs handles about 90% of the homes attic load and works fine with a 2 ton on an area that is 90% as large as the downstairs? Think about it.

    Also, I have found that a significant portion of the heat entering the downstairs attic drifts up to the upstairs area and is actually handled by the upstairs unit. Pay for a heat load on the entire home. If it comes out to 3.5 ton total or less, I would recommend a 1.5 ton for the downstairs. Most contractors are scared to downsize and right size air conditioning. SEE: http://www.michiganheat.com/epa-facts/016.pdf

    most houses i have seen, have smaller upstairs systems

    i don't think contractors are scared to downsize

    i think they just know better



    .

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