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Thread: Would love input: Am Std vs Whirlpool

  1. #21
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    Thread Starter

    Second floor built later

    The reason the upstairs is less, is because the house was remodeled, roof raised and second floor put in . This is the way we bought the house.

    So I guess when they built the second floor, they decided to put in a 2T.

    I am also looking at carrier, will post the options separately.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulu123 View Post
    That is good info about whirlpool history. Not sure why they would not have parts though. If I went with this company with the whirlpool or amana, would probably use the company as maintenance as well. They give a lifetime warranty on compressor and heat exchanger. And I am not sure what this is, says "lifetime parts and labor to original home owner" if you use their maintenance program.
    Lulu there is no such thing as a lifetime warranty on a compressor. Heat exchangers alot of them are now. Whatever brand you go with is really not the important decision, the important thing is who installs it. ANY brand installed right is gonna make you happy and comfortable for years to come!!

  3. #23
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    I had assumed the house was built at one time. If the window and wall construction are the same, then logic alone tells me the load on the first floor is LESS than the load on the second floor. In any event, a heat load (which I suggested) of the whole house will confirm this.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    NEVER STOP LEARNING.

  4. #24
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    lulu,

    I am about to tell you a secret not many outside of our industry know: That most of the time the reason HVAC contractors sell a certain brand of equipment is because they have struck some sort of deal with the distributor. The vast majority of the time we do not sell what we sell because of a certain product's quality but rather for the deals we are able to get from them if we sell enough of their product. And, as a reward for our efforts we may get some sort of kickback.

    It is very important that you understand that rarely is any brand or make of furnace any better than any other. Sure, some brands seem to look better aesthetically but that's about the only difference. They all use pretty much the same technology in their heat exchangers (which are now mostly based on technology Amana introduced, BTW), they all use the same mfg for their HSI's or spark ignitors & the warranties are all about the same. When it comes to the outdoor unit every brand uses primarily the same mfg of compressors (which is Copeland if it's a scroll, including Am. Stand./Trane). All fan/blower motors although made by different mfg's use the exact same technology as everyone else.

    My point? THERE IS VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY BETWEEN THE MFG'S OF A/C SYSTEMS!! Every brand has its quirks & its good points.

    So, I would, if I were you, go with the installer who actually does the load calc without having to be asked to do it & whom you can trust. Pay no attention to the brand they seem to be pushing.
    WHY?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
    I am about to tell you a secret not many outside of our industry know: That most of the time the reason HVAC contractors sell a certain brand of equipment is because they have struck some sort of deal with the distributor. The vast majority of the time we do not sell what we sell because of a certain product's quality but rather for the deals we are able to get from them if we sell enough of their product. And, as a reward for our efforts we may get some sort of kickback.

    It is very important that you understand that rarely is any brand or make of furnace any better than any other. Sure, some brands seem to look better aesthetically but that's about the only difference. They all use pretty much the same technology in their heat exchangers (which are now mostly based on technology Amana introduced, BTW), they all use the same mfg for their HSI's or spark ignitors & the warranties are all about the same. When it comes to the outdoor unit every brand uses primarily the same mfg of compressors (which is Copeland if it's a scroll, including Am. Stand./Trane). All fan/blower motors although made by different mfg's use the exact same technology as everyone else.

    My point? THERE IS VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY BETWEEN THE MFG'S OF A/C SYSTEMS!! Every brand has its quirks & its good points.

    So, I would, if I were you, go with the installer who actually does the load calc without having to be asked to do it & whom you can trust. Pay no attention to the brand they seem to be pushing.
    well said!! That is for sure the reason they push it. Not only that they already stock parts for it, they are familiar with it, but mos of all they get the BEST PRICE or KICKBACKS!!! Trust the installer not the brand.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Air Movers View Post
    Trust the installer not the brand.
    I agree
    • As far as heat loads go, we do not do a heat load until After we have made an agreement in writing.
    • Our standard agreement includes doing a heat load.
    • Our ageement naturally does not specify the size or model numbers.
    • We agree to right size the equipment unless the customer wishes to override our recommendations and specify sizing.
    • We specify the indoor design conditions that the customer wishes to achieve.
    • We provide setback thermostats with the understanding that they cannot expect setback strategy to work in the severe weather near or exceding our outdoor design conditions.
    • We have a lot of satisfied customers who pay a premium price for our services.
    • We sell 3 brands that we offer. Most customers chose to trust our recommendations on the brand that best meets their needs (including cost).
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    NEVER STOP LEARNING.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
    That most of the time the reason HVAC contractors sell a certain brand of equipment is because they have struck some sort of deal with the distributor.
    We have found that we sell any brand provided by a distributer that best provides for our needs. Price is only one factor. Training, shipping and delivery overnight, warranty services, techical support and other factors such as integrety provided by a great distributer enable us to deliver great services to our customers...at a fair price.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    NEVER STOP LEARNING.

  8. #28
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    BTW the model number provided 4a7b4036a1000aa is not 16 seer. the model should be 4a7a6036..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Neill View Post
    Find someone to do a load calculation first. Everybody else is just guessing about size. What else are they guessing about?

    My Myrtle Beach SC house is 2,000 sq. ft. 2 tons does it all.

    I did a load calculation.
    I dont see how you can cool 2,000 sq. ft. with 2 tons,it must not get hot in SC. Here in the panhandle of florida the local power companies do the energy forms,most of the time it works out to about 800 sq ft per ton. It never works, units are always under sized. Most of the time 650 sq ft per ton works,unless it is on 2nd floor than we use about 500 sq ft per ton, works everytime.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccben10 View Post
    I dont see how you can cool 2,000 sq. ft. with 2 tons,it must not get hot in SC. Here in the panhandle of florida the local power companies do the energy forms,most of the time it works out to about 800 sq ft per ton. It never works, units are always under sized. Most of the time 650 sq ft per ton works,unless it is on 2nd floor than we use about 500 sq ft per ton, works everytime.
    If you tested the systems, once they were put in, you would find out how it works. Half the systems I check are delivering 200 CFM per ton or LESS. Duct leakage is also a HUGE problem. Improper charge is a problem too.

    Talk to NCI. Their testing has revealed that the average system only delivers 57% of the BTUs it is capable of delivering to the house.

    If you test performance, you would understand. If you don't test, then you are just guessing.

    Do you MEASURE air flow?

    Do you test duct leakage?

    Do you test for delivered BTUs?
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Neill View Post
    If you tested the systems, once they were put in, you would find out how it works. Half the systems I check are delivering 200 CFM per ton or LESS. Duct leakage is also a HUGE problem. Improper charge is a problem too.

    Talk to NCI. Their testing has revealed that the average system only delivers 57% of the BTUs it is capable of delivering to the house.

    If you test performance, you would understand. If you don't test, then you are just guessing.

    Do you MEASURE air flow?

    Do you test duct leakage?

    Do you test for delivered BTUs?
    No we do not test air flow,duct leakage or btu's. But we do install tight and sealed duct work, charge by superheat or subcool and check for temperature difference though-out house. Our customers are very pleased.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccben10 View Post
    No we do not test air flow,duct leakage or btu's. But we do install tight and sealed duct work, charge by superheat or subcool and check for temperature difference though-out house. Our customers are very pleased.
    Your statement says it all. You do not test enough to be sure you are doing it right. Your customers being pleased does not indicate proper performance. How do you know your ducts are tight if you don't test them? Again, you are just guessing. I am glad you use superheat and subcooling. That is a good start. Now start doing the rest of what you should do, even if just on a sample.
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
    I am about to tell you a secret not many outside of our industry know: That most of the time the reason HVAC contractors sell a certain brand of equipment is because they have struck some sort of deal with the distributor. The vast majority of the time we do not sell what we sell because of a certain product's quality but rather for the deals we are able to get from them if we sell enough of their product. And, as a reward for our efforts we may get some sort of kickback.

    It is very important that you understand that rarely is any brand or make of furnace any better than any other. Sure, some brands seem to look better aesthetically but that's about the only difference. They all use pretty much the same technology in their heat exchangers (which are now mostly based on technology Amana introduced, BTW), they all use the same mfg for their HSI's or spark ignitors & the warranties are all about the same. When it comes to the outdoor unit every brand uses primarily the same mfg of compressors (which is Copeland if it's a scroll, including Am. Stand./Trane). All fan/blower motors although made by different mfg's use the exact same technology as everyone else.

    My point? THERE IS VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY BETWEEN THE MFG'S OF A/C SYSTEMS!! Every brand has its quirks & its good points.

    So, I would, if I were you, go with the installer who actually does the load calc without having to be asked to do it & whom you can trust. Pay no attention to the brand they seem to be pushing.


    *GASP* you gave away our secret!!!!

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