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Thread: R22 Refrigerant Replacement for Chillers

  1. #1
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    R22 Refrigerant Replacement for Chillers

    I am interested in what replacement for R22 you guys are using for chillers if any.
    Personally i would rather change the chiller but here across the pond some of the SUITS here in the UK are pushing Dupont M029 AND M099 as the prefered refrigerant replacement.

    However the problems encountered with both refrigerants have usually meant repeated visits due to numerous leaks and poor oil return and higher temperature glide when operated below 8 degrees C leaving water temperature. Problems were only mentioned by Dupont reps .after we reporting back to them about our problems

    Dupont or their local reps have been a little econimical with the truth to say the least regarding these problems until after they have happened by which time your deep in the S**T with the customer.

    So if you have any thoughts good or bad or any information regarding what sort of problems you have had and were they eventually overcome would be appreciated. Both the refrigerants have been used on Carrier Chillers.

    Gibbo


  2. #2
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    dupont has a web site that has all of their refrigerants properties, etc and you can easily look at a specific gas prior to replacement. we have used r407 for one replacement of r22, and it was a pain, and loses about fifteen percent or so capacity. ugh.

  3. #3
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    Hey there Gibbo what kind of chillers are you working on with this new refrigerant?

  4. #4
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    Thread Starter
    TGL they have been mainly 30HR water cooled chillers which were converted to M029 just over 2 years ago. Recently a Trane water cooled chiller not sure of model no was converted to M099 again more leaks and even worse poor oil return, I do know that Trane didn't entertain the idea of M029/M099 but went for R404A on other retrofits. The local rep for Duponts answer to overcome the poor oil return was to add some POE oil. Chillers were still running on mineral oil as per Duponts instruction. So far it hasn't helped the oil return problem.

    Regarding the Dupont website 2 years ago they made it sound as if it was a walk in the park to retrofit. Information was pretty poor about chillers retrofited with this type of refrigerant and as most service companies found to their cost return visits for leaks and other problems became the norm.

    Eventually most service companies replaced everything which had a O ring, seal or gasket, ie schraders, solenoids, compressor terminal seals etc.
    At no time was this mentioned on their web site either in US or UK that has now changed and techs are more aware of previous F**k ups.

    The temperature glide under 8 deg C leaving water temp was another problem found afterwards and not previously mentioned seems to me as if the R & D was done in the field, suppose i shouldn't be too surprised at lack of info supplied.

    M099 is now Duponts prefered refrigerant for retrofitting chillers with R22

  5. #5
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    Sir,

    Could you please help me out. I'd like to know the challenges faced while replacing the R22 with the R407c. I'd also like to know the impact on the compressor, condenser.......essentially the entire system. A clarification in this regard would be appreciated. Thank you!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by adarsh412 View Post
    Sir,

    Could you please help me out. I'd like to know the challenges faced while replacing the R22 with the R407c. I'd also like to know the impact on the compressor, condenser.......essentially the entire system. A clarification in this regard would be appreciated. Thank you!
    Is this a chiller? Flooded evaporator? More information is needed. Chiller model?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnewYork View Post
    Is this a chiller? Flooded evaporator? More information is needed. Chiller model?
    Yes, this is for a Carrier air cooled Chiller, model no. 30GB175. It has reciprocating compressors (7 nos.), 8 condensers and 2 electronic expansion valves (2 circuits).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by adarsh412 View Post
    Yes, this is for a Carrier air cooled Chiller, model no. 30GB175. It has reciprocating compressors (7 nos.), 8 condensers and 2 electronic expansion valves (2 circuits).
    Have you checked with the manufacturer? I would think one stumbling block would be the software. All the settings in the control and safety programs is written for R-22, how would you change that?

  9. #9
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    Have you checked with the manufacturer? I would think one stumbling block would be the software. All the settings in the control and safety programs is written for R-22, how would you change that?

    Thanks for the input. We have checked with the manufacturer and we're good to go. There is replacement for the control and safety programs. Apart from the software, can you think of any other issues and their solutions as well? Thanks once again!

  10. #10
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    If it's approved and supported with the manufacturer then I don't see the problem. I'm just some guy on the internet.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by adarsh412 View Post
    Sir,

    Could you please help me out. I'd like to know the challenges faced while replacing the R22 with the R407c. I'd also like to know the impact on the compressor, condenser.......essentially the entire system. A clarification in this regard would be appreciated. Thank you!
    http://www.3dair.co.uk/download-files/r407c-guide.pdf

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