Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Bait and switch or not?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes

    Bait and switch or not?

    I received and accepted a proposal for a new hvac system from a local company that has a good reputation.
    A couple of days after the instillation I got the invoice in the mail. The listed components were different than those on the proposal.
    I checked the numbers directly on the equipment and they matched the invoice numbers. I called the company and spoke with the rep who
    put together the original proposal. He stated that when he and the foreman were about a week before the install they decided that the system would
    be better with the different components. And he totally forgot to let me know. He wanted to assure me that the "changes were made for design and the best system for your home". Plus there was a reduction of a few hundred dollars on the installed components.

    My trust, in what their telling me now, has been broken.
    I was happy with the first proposal after doing a bit of research. Now the new system is completely different and I'm not sure whether to accept the change or
    make them install the original quoted system.

    Here are the 2 systems and the house facts.

    1945 square feet home. Single level ranch. No basement. Old ac was a 25 year old, 3.5 ton Single speed gas blower. Don't know what the coils were, old type freon though. Everything worked ok but the ac was very loud and waking me up night. I thought i go ahead and update the system primitively before failures.

    Proposed system components:
    Bryant Preferred™ 80% AFUE 110000 Btuh 4-Way Multipoise Gas Furnace
    Bryant Preferred series ac 3.5 ton single stage 16 seer
    Bryant indoor CAPMP coil- 3.5 ton
    I found a matching system on AHRI number 203669079

    System they installed;
    Bryant Preferred™ 80% AFUE 90000 Btuh 4-Way Multipoise Gas Furnace
    Bryant Preferred series ac 3.5 ton single stage 16 seer
    Bryant indoor CNPVP4821ALA coil- 4 ton
    They gave me AHRI cert number 203670698

    What I can gather then is; the the installed furnace is of lower capacity. The coil is now an N coil not an A.
    And the coil unit does not match the condenser tonnage. 4 ton coil to a 3.5 condenser.

    Online searches show mixed information about the oversized coil being ok to use.
    As well as what coil is better; A or N.

    living with the system for a week now, The humidity levels in the house are higher than I've seen and felt.
    The company did say they would send a tech out to tweak the system.

    It may be or not, but I feel that they are taking advantage of me by installing this system without letting me know ahead of time and getting my approval for the changes.

    They have all their people telling me that the one installed is the better set up. Would anyone please share your thoughts on the 2 systems? So I can make a more informed choice.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dayton Oh
    Posts
    5,317
    Post Likes
    Where do you live?
    It is very very very odd that a house that is 1900 sqft needs both a 3.5 ton ac and a 90k furnace

    Not apples to apples but… my 3200 sqft ranch has a 3 ton ac and 80000 furnace

    Typically we see you need a lot of one or the other. New builds are different as the insulation code has changed.

    I’m betting the humidity is high because they didn’t adjust the blower down from high speed to the speed needed. As a default, units come from the factory set on high speed. The installed needs to change it to the correct speed needed in the field.

    As for the n vs a coil. Carrier A coils are enormous. As in likely taller than the furnace is. I just a did a 3 ton a coil because I had the space I could, and it was the same height as the furnace. If it was a basement or closet with normal ceiling height I would have had to use the n coil.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. Likes kdean1, STEVEusaPA liked this post.
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beatrice, NE
    Posts
    17,586
    Post Likes
    Both systems are a AHRI match which means that the components are designed to work together. That's good.

    The furnace is smaller which means that it should match the house load better, I didn't see where you said a load was done so that may just be a guess. Possible good thing.

    The coil is a half ton bigger. Generally a good thing but there are many aspects of the coil to consider which I do not have the data for.

    N vs A. I don't like N coils but I'm old school, and don't like most change. Still though would not go so far as to say it is a bad thing.

    Did I miss anything, oh yeah the tweaks. Minor adjustments are sometimes needed to get the system to operate best with the structure it is attached to. Assuming it is a competent tech a good thing, something less and not so much.

  5. Likes Sue2112 liked this post.
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Posts
    6
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    I live in St.Louis, MO
    Zone 3 according to the chart. We do have very long periods of hot, humid weather in the summer. And can get down to the single digits and a bit below
    o degrees at times in the winter.
    House built in 1954.

    Oh, I forgot to mention it's a downflow system if makes a difference in calculations?

    But yeah, the size of an A coil as you describe would not fit. There is about 2 feet of plenum stuff above.

    Thanks

  7. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,761
    Post Likes
    The system quoted is 15 SEER, 12.5 EER
    System Installed is 16 SEER, 13 EER - this will typically qualify for rebates if any are offered. More efficient and you saved a few dollars.

    Let them adjust the system, then decide you don't like it.
    Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office

    Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas

  8. Likes R600a, ksefan, Bazooka Joe, Sue2112 liked this post.
  9. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    42,421
    Post Likes
    Chances are, the A coil is microchannel which is a pain to get the refrigerant level right. N coils can be restrictive is their negative.

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dayton Oh
    Posts
    5,317
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Chances are, the A coil is microchannel which is a pain to get the refrigerant level right. N coils can be restrictive is their negative.
    You mean the new power v coil?

    I’m still waiting to get my first one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    3,740
    Post Likes
    It sounds like the salesman was concerned he sold you an oversize furnace and bumped it down. The coil being a half ton over is fine as well. I wouldn't be concerned, yes they should have told you about the changes but you still got a matching system.
    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

    Statements made by me are strictly my opinions and do not reflect the opinions of my employer. I am not authorized to make any official statements on behalf of my employer.
    Any technical advice offered by me is for educational purposes only, all HVAC related repairs should only be attempted by qualified personnel.

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    11,851
    Post Likes
    From my understanding, Carrier has nothing in the "A" coil configuration any longer below 4T. Maybe this is due to the change to the new crapochannel, I mean microchannel, coil.
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    East Concord, NY
    Posts
    22,068
    Post Likes
    Not bait and switch. It does look like they made command decisions to give you a better fitted system that will increase comfort and reduce energy costs. It's unfortunate that he forgot to tell you but perhaps they are really busy? Honest mistakes happen. Additionally, they gave you a refund for the difference. I think you found a company that has the customer at heart rather than their bottom line.
    Nest is POO!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •