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Thread: Repeated Compressor Failure - Bad Valves - I'm the new guy on the scene

  1. #1
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    Repeated Compressor Failure - Bad Valves - I'm the new guy on the scene

    Hello everyone, let me say I appreciate your help in advance on this one. I relative of a close friend called me in on this issue as the company they had out there seems to keep messing it up. So this is new to me and I have anecdotal evidence to go on.

    Client has a 2 year old Goodman 5 ton system, matched furnace and Evap coil in the attic. Compressor was ruled as "failed" at 2 year mark by the original installers. They did a warranty claim with Goodman, installed new compressor under part warranty, and called it good. Home owner returned from vacation to hot house, no one is sure if the new compressor ever fixed the issue. I was called in after that, here's what I found:

    High Suction (410a) pressure at 220 - 245 PSI, not very much super heat, between 0 - 3. Head Pressure is either normal at 325 or a little low. Sub cooling also 0-3. Amp draw is low, compressor RLA is 26.5, pulling 10-12.

    Suction line temp 83, Liquid line at 94. VSAT at aprox 86. Loud growling sound as compressor runs.

    I recommended the home owner have the company come back out as it seemed to me the compressor valves were bad. Old company replaced the compressor AGAIN under warranty. System ran fine for two days, then stopped cooling. I come out again and the readings are about the same as the first time. Also, the service valves do not shut off all the way.

    What would cause valves to go bad in two replacement compressors in just a few days? I suspect the original company is hacking them in and overheating the service valves / compressor and ruining its valves also.

    What would you guys recommend? I don't want to replace the compressor for a 3rd total time to find out there is some over underlying issue. System is on a piston, no TXV.

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    The suction is far too high and the discharge pressure is not going up proportionally as you would expect.

    I would look at the metering device as i am guessing the compressor is pumping liquid.

  3. #3
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    Normal head pressure?
    S H 0-3?

    X-valve or piston?

    I don’t see a bad pump!

  4. #4
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    System uses a piston, could it be a clogged piston? I don't have typical high side restriction numbers I don't think.

    I attempted to pump it down, after shutting off high side service valve, high side pressure dropped to 220 from 295 and held, compressor never shut off for high pressure trip.

  5. #5
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    What do you set the HP Safety for on R-410?

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    Thread Starter
    I usually go with 450

  8. #7
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    Scroll compressors don't have valves....which is likely what is in that 2 year old unit.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

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    Thread Starter
    Gotcha, thanks for that info. So I'm really looking at a metering device issue / some sort of restriction then? I'll recover the charge and crack open the piston location to check for obstructions. Any other thoughts on where I should focus?

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    Compressor model & dsh sh?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by VOWSac View Post
    System uses a piston, could it be a clogged piston? I don't have typical high side restriction numbers I don't think.

    I attempted to pump it down, after shutting off high side service valve, high side pressure dropped to 220 from 295 and held, compressor never shut off for high pressure trip.
    Quote Originally Posted by VOWSac View Post
    I usually go with 450
    Then why aren’t you surprised it didn’t Tripp at 295?

  12. #11
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    Maybe the piston is in backwards or missing or not anywhere near the proper size.

    What’s the model number of the outdoor unit? What’s the brand and model number of indoor sections, furnace and coil. Where the coil sections replaced at the same time with a AHRI matched system? Is this a replacement for a existing system, if so did you reuse existing lineset, ( or need to modify, seal existing ductwork ) as chances there would be no kinks in the lineset..

    What do you have for line sizes for the length of run for a 5 ton.

    Did they install a inverted loop by the coil, as last checked one is required. Not necessarily that is what’s causing the issue, but it’s nice to follow install guide. Is the coil larger ( Width ) than the furnace, if so is there a transition piece.

    Did anybody ever check static pressures, is the CFM set correctly and hopefully your return/supply duct is sized somewhat correctly for a 5 ton system.

    Is the furnace rated for a up to 5 ton A/C system?

    2015 Goodman Piston Chart. Some models says to install a TXV.

    https://jacksonsupplycompany.com/med...-02-2015-c.pdf
    Last edited by Bazooka Joe; 08-09-2022 at 06:51 PM.

  13. #12
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    I vote for a nonexistent piston with the distributor tubes doing the only metering in the system.

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  15. #13
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    As mentioned if no piston you basically have ( distributor tubes ) a multi circuit improper cap ( capillary ) tube system

  16. #14
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    I’m voting no piston. Suction and head pressure are 80-100 psi apart. 0-3 SH and SC. That kinda sounds like a missing piston.

  17. #15
    Hurst11 is offline Professional Member/Membership Committee
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    I’m voting piston issue as well. Definitely not a clogged piston, superheat would be really high if so.
    Also I see you have the required post count to apply for pro membership. Only so much help we can give in the open forum.
    Oh yea and it’s free to apply.

  18. #16
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    Scroll comps running backwards make a funny growling sound.

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  20. #17
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    Voting no piston

  21. #18
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    Thread Starter
    Hi everyone, I wanted to thank you all very much for your help on the topic. After digging in, I found that there was a very undersized piston placed off center at the evaporator coil.

    But the fun didn't stop there! Both service valves were melted to where they would not open or close all the way. There was a ton of scale trapped in those service valves and on closer inspection, I don't think any rags or thermal gel was used in brazing in the compressor. There was a ton of black sludge like stuff in the refrigerant, telling me the previous company didn't change out the charge when they replaced the compressor.

    I recovered way more refrigerant than should have been in the system, over by like 3.7 pounds. The compressor itself still ran, but even after changing the piston out an adding new refrigerant, the displacement was low. Client ended up buying a whole new condenser and charging back their payment to previous company. Being 410a in Texas, I used a TXV.

    Thank you all again for your help!

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  23. #19
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    Undersized piston, placed off center meaning what? Different manufacturers brand piston than a Goodman? as Goodman pistons fits snuggly inside the chamber. The one we use have the Teflon ring attached to the end of the piston and that side slides in toward the distributor tubes side. You have a photo of this piston?

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