Commercial HVAC Tech Shortage

[AdrianOmarPerez]

This thread’s purpose is to address the Commercial HVAC Tech shortage. This includes Applied/Engineered, Larger LC, and Smaller LC Service Techs.

In our peer group, we have received an estimate provided by the state regulation dept of 7,000 or so HVAC Techs in this state.
We are awaiting an active HVAC contractor count by the regulation dept. The regulation dept still counts suspended, revoked, and inactive “contractors”.

So what can be done about the shortage of Techs, or more specifically the shortage of skilled Techs?


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[supers_5]

It seems like it's industry wide. We are forced to hire less then stellar techs, as there isn't much competition.

In Ontario, the union pushes recruitment quite hard, even if the government still isn't. (they cut out most of the highschool to trades programs that funneled talent into the trades 2 decades ago.)

[AdrianOmarPerez]

It seems like it's industry wide. We are forced to hire less then stellar techs, as there isn't much competition.

In Ontario, the union pushes recruitment quite hard, even if the government still isn't. (they cut out most of the highschool to trades programs that funneled talent into the trades 2 decades ago.)

Ontario is home to 1 of 2 Service Locals in the Pipe Trades Union. The other is in Vancouver. 787 may be the largest Svc membership in the PTU - point blank. I had an idea to change the dynamic, based on the success of those 2 Locals, in the Desert SW. All I got was a C and D from the General Office.
I’m still here tho, albeit not pushing the Big Labor movement. In AZ, by our peer group estimates, as many as 40% of Contractors/Techs should not be anywhere near an Air Conditioner. And to top it off, Enforcement does nothing to help curb work done by “unlicensed entities” or unscrupulous contractors.


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[jayguy]

… In AZ, by our peer group estimates, as many as 40% of Contractors/Techs should not be anywhere near an Air Conditioner. And to top it off, Enforcement does nothing to help curb work done by “unlicensed entities” or unscrupulous contractors.


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Can’t have it both ways. Eventually, the prices will rise and that will allow more money to flow into the techs pockets. When that does, then we will be flooded with recruits. But, at this point in time, we are competing with other “skilled trades” such as automotive/diesel mechanics and the like. Locally, I have heard of $7000 bonuses if you stay for 1 year for a diesel mechanic.

I am curious as to when the current management will recognize those that have stayed and kept things alive. Perhaps jumping ship will be the only way to wake them up.

[pecmsg]

Ontario is home to 1 of 2 Service Locals in the Pipe Trades Union. The other is in Vancouver. 787 may be the largest Svc membership in the PTU - point blank. I had an idea to change the dynamic, based on the success of those 2 Locals, in the Desert SW. All I got was a C and D from the General Office.
I’m still here tho, albeit not pushing the Big Labor movement. In AZ, by our peer group estimates, as many as 40% of Contractors/Techs should not be anywhere near an Air Conditioner. And to top it off, Enforcement does nothing to help curb work done by “unlicensed entities” or unscrupulous contractors.


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What "Enforcement"???

[pecmsg]

In the 80's the contractors hired high school helpers for the summer. maybe 1 out of 5 stayed in the trade. Labor laws, workmans comp rules, hell maybe just being cheap that all went away. Now there paying the price. I retired last year. Raised my rates for my business hoping it would slow down, it didn't I got busier. Raised my rates again, charged OT for after hours and weekends, the phone keeps ringing. I only want to work 3 - 5 hours a day but still putting in close to 40 a week.

Money talks BS walks. We are the new middle class and the rates in the NY market will hit 200K quickly!

[Zamoramax]

I'm willing to learn just about anything. Seems the few we can find are not willing to work or are to lazy and stupid to do something. I am averaging 1-2 calls per week from another companies service guy asking me how to do something. The guy hasn't asked how to do something twice. He listens and does exactly as I tell him. I wish he worked for/with me. I would trade 2 guys for him in a heartbeat.

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[AdrianOmarPerez]

Can’t have it both ways. Eventually, the prices will rise and that will allow more money to flow into the techs pockets. When that does, then we will be flooded with recruits. But, at this point in time, we are competing with other “skilled trades” such as automotive/diesel mechanics and the like. Locally, I have heard of $7000 bonuses if you stay for 1 year for a diesel mechanic.

I am curious as to when the current management will recognize those that have stayed and kept things alive. Perhaps jumping ship will be the only way to wake them up.

Labor should do a better job of gauging talent - point blank. The answer isn’t to hand some Joe Schmo a fistful of dollars.
Applied/Engineered commands top-dollar. LC ranges vastly from a 6.25TR Package to a 390TR Air-Cooled Scroll Chiller. Residential, even tho it is king, gets the short end of the stick. There is exceptions, a non-union Resi guy can make $200/Yr plus PTO out here working for a Resi behemoth, and a Union Chiller guy would make $100/Yr with little or no PTO.
Regardless of which LOB it is, we are hurting. Our peer group has not received real numbers as the Refrigeration Tech count in this state. The Regulation Dept does a terrible job of keeping track of these things.


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[timebuilder]

The industry does not offer sufficient compensation to bring people in from other fields which pay more but have similar requirements of abilities, such as deductive and inductive reasoning, working with hands, being committed to showing up on time, and customer service.

A teen can live in his mom's basement playing Fortnight, and as long as he can write a few apps for the iPhone platform, he can make 50k a year. We will have to offer a lot more and charge a lot more to repopulate the trade.

[supers_5]

A teen can live in his mom's basement playing Fortnight, and as long as he can write a few apps for the iPhone platform, he can make 50k a year. We will have to offer a lot more and charge a lot more to repopulate the trade.

Or makes that much just streaming himself playing fortnight, or other things. Multiple times that if he's any good and enters competitions.

...

I'm in 787. They do a decent job at training. Could be better, but it's still decent.

I've found that enforcement does little. Either people do the very least to get certified, (including cheating on tests) or they just fly under the radar for as long as they can. I also know a few very good techs that have trouble taking tests, despite their skill level. Ontario has very strict regulations, but we still get people that don't know the basics. But they are certified.

IMO, Offering and advertising training for as cheap as possible is the way to go. Most techs will want to learn but can't stomach (or afford in the cases of apprentices) of private classes that may not be very fulfilling. Work on the quality of the content, and get as much sponsorships that you can find. My local tries to do that, and only charges if people who have signed to, don't show up.

[AdrianOmarPerez]

What "Enforcement"???

Exactly!


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[AdrianOmarPerez]

Or makes that much just streaming himself playing fortnight, or other things. Multiple times that if he's any good and enters competitions.

...

I'm in 787. They do a decent job at training. Could be better, but it's still decent.

I've found that enforcement does little. Either people do the very least to get certified, (including cheating on tests) or they just fly under the radar for as long as they can. I also know a few very good techs that have trouble taking tests, despite their skill level. Ontario has very strict regulations, but we still get people that don't know the basics. But they are certified.

IMO, Offering and advertising training for as cheap as possible is the way to go. Most techs will want to learn but can't stomach (or afford in the cases of apprentices) of private classes that may not be very fulfilling. Work on the quality of the content, and get as much sponsorships that you can find. My local tries to do that, and only charges if people who have signed to, don't show up.

Well in the US, the Unions are pushing The Fight For $15. That’s where they should start, or 30% of MESJ (I mean true Svc Jman, not MESS or not less than Commercial Construction PF equal wage like it is in NYC) - whichever is higher. You just can’t throw money at just any ol’ body.
Out here, there’s at least 15 “Commercial HVAC Svc Tech Jmen (a glorified term for a Svcman) - who don’t know HVAC at all. How did that happen?!

I would say too many guys are stuck in the old language (prior to 2003), when there was no Svcman Classification. I know a lot of guys dislike that category, but it would’ve been key for growth, as LC HVAC accounts for 25%-30% of HVAC, while Applied/Engineered HVAC is no more than 5%.
Prior to 2003, Chiller Techs, LC Techs, and Pneumaticfitter Techs all headed towards the same pay. Chiller Techs expected Fman pay, but that was never contractual.

Applied/HVAC and Industrial Refrigeration should be at the top. But in NYC, it’s $55/Hr for Pipefitter Jman - but less for a Svc Jman i.e. Chiller Tech?! Svc Jman should be $68.75/Hr in NYC. Paying the guys who install the Chiller (plus The Rule Of Two) more than the guy who fixes it?!


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[pecmsg]

Here in the NE $15 an hour is poverty wages. He’ll dishwashers are pushing $30.

[supers_5]

Well in the US, the Unions are pushing The Fight For $15. That’s where they should start, or 30% of MESJ (I mean true Svc Jman, not MESS or not less than Commercial Construction PF equal wage like it is in NYC) - whichever is higher. You just can’t throw money at just any ol’ body.
Out here, there’s at least 15 “Commercial HVAC Svc Tech Jmen (a glorified term for a Svcman) - who don’t know HVAC at all. How did that happen?!

I would say too many guys are stuck in the old language (prior to 2003), when there was no Svcman Classification. I know a lot of guys dislike that category, but it would’ve been key for growth, as LC HVAC accounts for 25%-30% of HVAC, while Applied/Engineered HVAC is no more than 5%.
Prior to 2003, Chiller Techs, LC Techs, and Pneumaticfitter Techs all headed towards the same pay. Chiller Techs expected Fman pay, but that was never contractual.

Applied/HVAC and Industrial Refrigeration should be at the top. But in NYC, it’s $55/Hr for Pipefitter Jman - but less for a Svc Jman i.e. Chiller Tech?! Svc Jman should be $68.75/Hr in NYC. Paying the guys who install the Chiller (plus The Rule Of Two) more than the guy who fixes it?!


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You have to account for different tax structures, exchange rates, and cost of living, but a unionized commercial tech runs at about $60/hr plus benefits.

PS. Please avoid abbreviations. Not everyone will be familiar with them.

[AdrianOmarPerez]

Here in the NE $15 an hour is poverty wages. He’ll dishwashers are pushing $30.

My fault. It seems you are focusing on the older crowd. My example was to focus on 18-20 y/o’s, I should of clarified that. But we’ll draw a comparison.
Let’s say Local starts at $18/Hr for Svc Tradesman or 1st Yr Svc Apprentice, this Local graduates Svcman (at 80%) after 5 Yrs - $48/Hr for LC. The Svc Tradesman stays at 30% of the going Svc Jman, as he is a Helper. A Svc Jman Chiller and/or Boiler “Upgrade” is offered for as many slots as the Contractors have. 1 Yr or maybe 2 of additional Training to arrive at Svc Jman (100%) which would be $60/Hr. Seems good, maybe great.
What about good or great for somebody entering the Union at 38-42 y/o?

This example is in $USD.


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[AdrianOmarPerez]

You have to account for different tax structures, exchange rates, and cost of living, but a unionized commercial tech runs at about $60/hr plus benefits.

PS. Please avoid abbreviations. Not everyone will be familiar with them.

I’ll try to only abbreviate Service as Svc and Journeyman as Jman.


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[supers_5]

My fault. It seems you are focusing on the older crowd. My example was to focus on 18-20 y/o’s, I should of clarified that. But we’ll draw a comparison.
Let’s say Local starts at $18/Hr for Svc Tradesman or 1st Yr Svc Apprentice, this Local graduates Svcman (at 80%) after 5 Yrs - $48/Hr for LC. The Svc Tradesman stays at 30% of the going Svc Jman, as he is a Helper. A Svc Jman Chiller and/or Boiler “Upgrade” is offered for as many slots as the Contractors have. 1 Yr or maybe 2 of additional Training to arrive at Svc Jman (100%) which would be $60/Hr. Seems good, maybe great.
What about good or great for somebody entering the Union at 38-42 y/o?

This example is in $USD.


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Same apprenticeship pay structure here. Province enforces the apprenticeship and testing.

It's really hard on someone older entering the trade.

[Red Man]

Applied/HVAC and Industrial Refrigeration should be at the top. But in NYC, it’s $55/Hr for Pipefitter Jman - but less for a Svc Jman i.e. Chiller Tech?! Svc Jman should be $68.75/Hr in NYC. Paying the guys who install the Chiller (plus The Rule Of Two) more than the guy who fixes it?!


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I agree. I’m classified as service man, I get paid well over scale but don’t get the extra btj benefits. When I work the construction side doing install or start ups, I’m classified as btj but I’ve never understood why I get paid better to install or start up equipment than to fix it. In my opinion it takes just as much knowledge and skill, if not more, to fix something as to install it.

[Elfshadow]

My fault. It seems you are focusing on the older crowd. My example was to focus on 18-20 y/o’s, I should of clarified that. But we’ll draw a comparison.
Let’s say Local starts at $18/Hr for Svc Tradesman or 1st Yr Svc Apprentice, this Local graduates Svcman (at 80%) after 5 Yrs - $48/Hr for LC. The Svc Tradesman stays at 30% of the going Svc Jman, as he is a Helper. A Svc Jman Chiller and/or Boiler “Upgrade” is offered for as many slots as the Contractors have. 1 Yr or maybe 2 of additional Training to arrive at Svc Jman (100%) which would be $60/Hr. Seems good, maybe great.
What about good or great for somebody entering the Union at 38-42 y/o?

This example is in $USD.


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Your 18-20 year olds are looking at back breaking labor vs picking up basic coding skills and working from home for more money.

The smart ones that you want aren't coming to this trade when there is programing and IT labor shortages that pay better, don't require any travel, don't require them to deal with the public, and does not destroy their health.

Timebuilder, as normal, nailed this.

[supers_5]

Your 18-20 year olds are looking at back breaking labor vs picking up basic coding skills and working from home for more money.

The smart ones that you want aren't coming to this trade when there is programing and IT labor shortages that pay better, don't require any travel, don't require them to deal with the public, and does not destroy their health.

Timebuilder, as normal, nailed this.

I was a programmer. Hated the desk job. Final pay is far better now. Wasn't as an apprentice.