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Schneider Smartx MP-C controllers????
Does anybody have experience with the Schneider line of SmartX MP-C controllers? I am reviewing a submittal for a fellow engineer and the proposed system is a Schneider branded JACE 8000 with 3 of these MP-C controllers. I could find no info in either the submital package or on the web as to how these controllers are programmed.
I can't find an IOM manual that shows if any special hardware or software is required to program them. I found references to a "mobile commissioning application" but not much more than that.
2 things that do look nice are they are BACnet I/P instead of MS/TP and they have a nice modular display/keypad that can be purchased.
My only other experience with a schneider product is with an RO system we installed, Had a horrible time because we couldn't change the MACID or device ID of the controller without having the OEM of the RO skid create a new program and send it to us on a USB flash stick. Even then, they still left the DeviceID at 0
Any help is appreciated!
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Originally Posted by
VAEngineer
Does anybody have experience with the Schneider line of SmartX MP-C controllers? I am reviewing a submittal for a fellow engineer and the proposed system is a Schneider branded JACE 8000 with 3 of these MP-C controllers. I could find no info in either the submital package or on the web as to how these controllers are programmed.
I can't find an IOM manual that shows if any special hardware or software is required to program them. I found references to a "mobile commissioning application" but not much more than that.
2 things that do look nice are they are BACnet I/P instead of MS/TP and they have a nice modular display/keypad that can be purchased.
My only other experience with a schneider product is with an RO system we installed, Had a horrible time because we couldn't change the MACID or device ID of the controller without having the OEM of the RO skid create a new program and send it to us on a USB flash stick. Even then, they still left the DeviceID at 0
Any help is appreciated!
I am quite familiar with them. They need to be programmed via Ecostruxure Workstation and for all practical purposes need to be hosted under an Ecostruxure server of some type to get them programmed.
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Originally Posted by
JCIman
I am quite familiar with them. They need to be programmed via Ecostruxure Workstation and for all practical purposes need to be hosted under an Ecostruxure server of some type to get them programmed.
I should have noted that I don't have any experience on how they would be programmed under a Schneider JACE. They likely have another set of tools for them in that environment.
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These would typically be programmed with Ecostruxure building operation software, however they recently released a Niagara version of the controller and a driver allowing you to host and program them through a JACE. I dont have any experience with the niagara flavored controllers, but I watched a Schneider webinar on it and the driver looks pretty nifty. You can do function block or script style code and it even has some sort of capability to translate between the two programming styles. Excited to maybe tinker around with it at some point.
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https://download.schneider-electric....c_Ref=02-20015
Are they finally end of lifing their MNB and MNL device lines?
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Yes, MNB and MNL's are EOL in a couple years. Think 100% dead in 2026. EcoStruxure, soon to be renamed SpaceLogix, is the future. Have a bit of experience with the Niagara driver. Once they get all the kinks out it will be good. Just going to take some time to get there. Huge differences in product offerings coming from IA Series to SpaceLogix. Not only controller capabilities, but room thermostats as well. Things we are able to do now in IA we will not be able to do in SpaceLogix. Think it is a bit of a downgrade.
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Originally Posted by
mlott132
EcoStruxure, soon to be renamed SpaceLogix,.
Wassup with the frivolous renaming?!?! It was SmartStruxure until rev... 2. Sumthin? Then it is EcoStruxure. Now 18 mos later it is renamed again?
The first rename was when it went from garbage the dealers were compelled to beta test to something vaguely stable and functional. What is the occasion with this next rename? Maybe looking to leave the bad press behind? All it takes is a rename and we all forget that it stunk....
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
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Originally Posted by
numbawunfela
Wassup with the frivolous renaming?!?! It was SmartStruxure until rev... 2. Sumthin? Then it is EcoStruxure. Now 18 mos later it is renamed again?
The first rename was when it went from garbage the dealers were compelled to beta test to something vaguely stable and functional. What is the occasion with this next rename? Maybe looking to leave the bad press behind? All it takes is a rename and we all forget that it stunk....
Was actually "Struxureware" if you go back to the early days, so if this is true then we are on the 4th rebrand. I don't get it. Its like some people have nothing better to do...
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Originally Posted by
mlott132
Things we are able to do now in IA we will not be able to do in SpaceLogix. Think it is a bit of a downgrade.
Just curious what kind of capabilities you are losing from IA. Coming from the Andover Continuum side, I can't see much to complain about, other than the graphics editor.
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The new line does not have the same room thermostat options as the IA Series MN thermostats. In order to get a thermostat with H&T plus display, you have to get the UI Touch model. Whereas we would typically use a MN-S3HT. UI Touch seems very fragile and just invites people to mess with them. Also, the new thermostats do not have any push button override indicator LED like the MN's do.
Most of the controllers are equal to their IA counterparts. Problem comes in when using the Niagara driver and you need more than 36 controller points. With IA we could use a MNB-1000 and add a few MNB-1000-15 IO modules to expand point capacity. However, the Niagara driver does not currently support the IP-IO module. Until that happens you would need to use multiple MP-C devices and have hardwired interlocks between them for stand-alone failsafe control.
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Originally Posted by
mlott132
The new line does not have the same room thermostat options as the IA Series MN thermostats. In order to get a thermostat with H&T plus display, you have to get the UI Touch model. Whereas we would typically use a MN-S3HT. UI Touch seems very fragile and just invites people to mess with them. Also, the new thermostats do not have any push button override indicator LED like the MN's do.
Most of the controllers are equal to their IA counterparts. Problem comes in when using the Niagara driver and you need more than 36 controller points. With IA we could use a MNB-1000 and add a few MNB-1000-15 IO modules to expand point capacity. However, the Niagara driver does not currently support the IP-IO module. Until that happens you would need to use multiple MP-C devices and have hardwired interlocks between them for stand-alone failsafe control.
I was just looking at the SmartX sensors cutsheet and i see what you are saying. There is a dumbed down 3 button LCD display variety, but if you want to use the T+H base and have a display, you need to get the touchscreen model. To be fair, those touchscreens seem to be very customizable-i have little doubt you can make them display occupancy override, though its not an LED like you are saying. We didnt have much in the way of fancy room sensors with Andover, so this isnt really a downgrade for us.
I agree with the expandability issue. Even if you can use the IP-IO, you arent expanding the IO capability of the controller, just putting dumb IO adjacent to it on the network. This is fine for monitoring points and non critical stuff, but anything critical and you will likely need another controller.
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Originally Posted by
Milkman Spawn
Its like some people have nothing better to do
EXACTLY. Fun for the dealers who get to change stationary or business cards every 18 mos to adapt....
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
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They are trying to copy what Moneywell did with Spyders. Programming will be done in the jace. I can see trying to have more standard programs for install-walkaway.
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Originally Posted by
Milkman Spawn
These would typically be programmed with Ecostruxure building operation software, however they recently released a Niagara version of the controller and a driver allowing you to host and program them through a JACE. I dont have any experience with the niagara flavored controllers, but I watched a Schneider webinar on it and the driver looks pretty nifty. You can do function block or script style code and it even has some sort of capability to translate between the two programming styles. Excited to maybe tinker around with it at some point.
I find this Interesting. Are they not getting the market penetration that they want with struxtureware/smartstruxture/ecostruxture/spacelogix? That’s why they are going back to more tridium based offerings?
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We tried in our shop to get JACEs and they would not sell to is, although we are a Schneider rep. And other IA dealers have said they were ACTIVELY and aggressively trying to squash the JACE line, even discontinuing it completely for a while when their sweetheart deal with AX went out and N4 came around. Until open revolt put an end to that....
Basically, I have heard nothing that would support the idea there is any active support by Schneider for anything JACE based.
But I am open to hearing if there is anything to be heard.
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
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When I went to training on the Schneider EBO product line I kept asking myself “ Does Schneider have any idea what their competitors products look like that they are competing with. No was obviously the answer. 30 year old block programming that is terrible. Controllers that brick when you attempt firmware upgrades requiring return to the factory and tech support’s answer to every problem is “upgrade the firmware in every controller on the job”. No thanks. Time to go back to Tridium everything.
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[QUOTE=bigguy158;26103586]I find this Interesting. Are they not getting the market penetration that they want with struxtureware
Struxureware/Ecostruxure is just for branch dealers. I don't think any contractor or company can, or would even want to, buy it. They will install this product to lock everyone else out. Probably the only time they would use niagara is when it is spec'd and they have to. I think they may have made some progress but I heard the programming time takes 4 times as long. They still have script programming available.
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Originally Posted by
incontrol
I think they may have made some progress but I heard the programming time takes 4 times as long. They still have script programming available.
The Struxureware programming is 4 times longer than Niagara? That is my experience.
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
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Originally Posted by
bigguy158
I find this Interesting. Are they not getting the market penetration that they want with struxtureware/smartstruxture/ecostruxture/spacelogix? That’s why they are going back to more tridium based offerings?
I heard they were getting a lot of pressure from their IA dealers who are used to Niagara and have a large installed customer base. They arent shifting back though, ecostruxure is still supposed to be the main bread and butter.
Originally Posted by
incontrol
Struxureware/Ecostruxure is just for branch dealers. I don't think any contractor or company can, or would even want to, buy it. They will install this product to lock everyone else out. Probably the only time they would use niagara is when it is spec'd and they have to. I think they may have made some progress but I heard the programming time takes 4 times as long. They still have script programming available.
Just to be clear, the schneider branch offices, as well as independent partners sell the same product.
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Originally Posted by
Milkman Spawn
Just to be clear, the schneider branch offices, as well as independent partners sell the same product.
Independent partners don't all have access to the same crap. Far as I can figure it depends on how you got assimilated into the borg. Maybe its how far you jump for them.