Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Water Furnace Heat pump done

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    47
    Post Likes

    Water Furnace Heat pump done

    Trying to help my buddy make the right decision. His 17 yr old 2.5 ton Water Furnace Geothermal Water to Air unit needs a new Compressor. Is it worth just replacing the Copeland pump or should he start pricing around for a whole new unit? I just installed a mini-split for him to heat and cool his garage. The Water Furnace does his whole house and he plans on staying in the house for years. Thanks and any tips on what else to replace if he does get the Copeland compressor replaced.
    Last edited by BVdog; 07-31-2021 at 11:53 PM. Reason: spell

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma home its in the name
    Posts
    10,802
    Post Likes
    Well since you don't seem to be getting answers I'll throw my opinion out there.
    I have almost no experience with water source equipment but from browsing prices it seems like swapping a unit would be relatively cheap and may be the way to go at that age.
    What is the overall condition of the equipment like? I worked on a 10 plus year old water source heat pump and until I read the date on the label I thought it was probably only two or three years old because it was in such good shape.
    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
    "Is this before or after you fired the parts cannon at it?" - senior tech

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    SouthEast NC ICW & Piedmont Foothills
    Posts
    8,204
    Post Likes
    1- 17 yr old, on that marginal line.
    2- any previous issues with system?
    3- as with many other GEO's, the repair will be labor intensive. 20# of crap in 5# sack.
    4- get $$$ both ways.
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

  4. Likes kdean1 liked this post.
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    47
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    If the unit had problems along the way the choice would be simple .. replace unit. He has had 1 issue and that was replacing the hot water tank that the unit feeds. No water pump, compressor or any control issues in 17 yrs. The big issue right now is the big $$$ to replace the whole unit and stick with the Water Furnace brand. I have him looking at other brands along his way. We dont know what locked the compressor up yet. Original company that installed the Geothermal coming out this week but over the phone they are not too interested in putting in a compressor.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    34,353
    Post Likes
    What killed the compressor?

    What the life of the heat exchangers?

    At 17 years replace the unit!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    State College, PA
    Posts
    3,630
    Post Likes
    As far as I know, if that is a recip compressor, that compressor is not available.

    A few months ago, I replaced a 20 year old Water Furnace with a dead compressor with a Climate Master. The only time I heard a customer say "perfect" when I asked how the system was working.

    It was quite an interesting install.

    I would go with a new Geo.
    Can someone please explain to me -
    Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to do it twice?


    Please view site rules: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=1241

    Apply for Pro Membership: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=116113

    Find your local HVAC-Talk Contractor: http://hvac-talk.com/aop

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    24,399
    Post Likes
    [QUOTE=pecmsg;26079612
    What the life of the heat exchangers?
    [/QUOTE]

    This ^^^^^^
    Heat exchanger is probably nasty after 17 years.
    How's his water chemistry ?

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    30,745
    Post Likes
    Why did the compressor fail?

    What is the nature of the failure? What specific defect does the compressor manifest?

    Does the existing system have a history of leaks?

    For myself I wouldn't hesitate to replace the compressor as water cooled equipment tends to live a low stress life. But if your buddy is going to turn on you like a wounded animal for any future failure - I would replace the equipment entirely.

    PHM
    -------




    Quote Originally Posted by BVdog View Post
    Trying to help my buddy make the right decision. His 17 yr old 2.5 ton Water Furnace Geothermal Water to Air unit needs a new Compressor. Is it worth just replacing the Copeland pump or should he start pricing around for a whole new unit? I just installed a mini-split for him to heat and cool his garage. The Water Furnace does his whole house and he plans on staying in the house for years. Thanks and any tips on what else to replace if he does get the Copeland compressor replaced.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of Thinking

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    47
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Thanks for the well thought out answers . I will be calling my buddy today to go over the details. The original company that did the complete install is coming out Monday to give him quotes. The over the phone quoted were crazy high. joemach if you would not mind giving me a little details about the Climate Master?? thanks
    The Water Furnace (that needs replaced)has a Copeland Scroll #
    ZP32K3E-PVE-230....the replacement I was able to find so far is ZP31K5E-PFV-830
    Again thanks for taking the time to give us more to look into.
    Has anyone put a Bosch Geo unit in?
    I am pretty impressed with the 1 Bosch Bova I have installed and if I get involved with this Geothermal project I want to look more into a Bosch unless I hear problems ???
    We do not have the original compressor out yet.. I was not there for the initial testing ... my buddy is in the trades and knows his way around meters.. the compressor I was told is pulling 80-90 amps and is locked. I will probably go over after his install company gives him the pricing and lowdown.
    Over the phone they told him they do not want to rebuild with a new compressor?? My thinking was I would start there and see where the pricing ends up??? But you guys gave me more thoughts about the water conditioning and linings etc.
    Last edited by BVdog; 08-01-2021 at 03:06 PM. Reason: spelling

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    State College, PA
    Posts
    3,630
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by BVdog View Post
    joemach if you would not mind giving me a little details about the Climate Master?? thanks
    Here is what I installed: TEV072BGD02CLTS

    Not the highest end but next to it.

    There are other models that are lower cost and efficiency (not SEER but COP & EER) no outdoor unit.

    The thing I like about the one I installed was that there are no external pumps. They are contained within the Geo housing. They maintain the proper water flow for the size of the unit.

    Here is a link: https://www.climatemaster.com/geothe...ital-series-te

    Let me know if you need more info.
    Can someone please explain to me -
    Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to do it twice?


    Please view site rules: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=1241

    Apply for Pro Membership: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=116113

    Find your local HVAC-Talk Contractor: http://hvac-talk.com/aop

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    47
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Ok the latest update working on the Water Furnace (17 yrs old single stage Scroll). I pulled 55 ounces out of a 70 ounce system. Pull it down for 60 minutes to 25 microns and it stayed there for 90 minutes after pump was off. The heat exchanger was totally plugged with crap that either got around or thru the washable air cleaner ( horrible design) My friend said he cleans the air filter 3-4 times a year but it was very hard for him to see the heat exchanger . When I took all the panels off and tried to shine a flashlight it was easy to see.
    So the decision will be to replace the compressor and put a new drier in place. Its a pretty easy decision to bet on the compressor or pay 25x more and have a new unit put in place??? The unit is very clean and the loops are holding a great pressure, blower motor has been updated a few years ago .
    Any more thoughts or recommendations? Thanks for the help so far... this will be my first geothermal work ( and hopefully my last lol).
    Last edited by BVdog; 08-03-2021 at 08:04 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Winnipeg Canada
    Posts
    1,504
    Post Likes
    I'd add a suction filter as well in this case. A little extra insurance as it seems like an old fashioned burn out
    You don't squat with your spurs on.
    And you NEVER put the torches away before pressure testing.

  14. Likes R600a liked this post.
  15. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    47
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Thanks for all the advice. New compressor (still need to purchase the dam updated harness) had to make up 3 connectors for temp..New suction filter and large filter dryer. vacuum tested, nitrogen pressure tested and a few hours of vacuum. System fired right up and my buddy is very happy .. I reminded him the system is 17 yrs old and start saving for the replacement but hopefully this buys him a few years to save and shop. The Water Furnace replacement quote was more than the initial install including the 3 loops in ground. Thanks again... Electrical is more my comfort zone but I am getting more comfortable with the piping .

  16. Likes VTP99 liked this post.
  17. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    va
    Posts
    2,209
    Post Likes
    I used to install Florida Water Source. They used to have cu/ni freeze proof type in tube heat exchangers & scroll compressors, appeared to be the best in the market at the time . Later started using Bristol inertias ...

    I see Bosh bought them out. cu/ni is now an option, but well worth the having. Scroll compressors on 2tn & up, rotary on smaller units.

    If his is closed loop as appears, it probable needs flushing and recharge with treated water/glycol mix.

  18. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Harlingen, TX
    Posts
    669
    Post Likes
    Anybody heard of the"shock" method for clearing the heat exchanger? W/A systems are/were popular in Fla. Frederick's was a bullet proof machine...

  19. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    va
    Posts
    2,209
    Post Likes
    Fhp listed it-in their manual. Not sure if i would try it on some other designs.

  20. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Harlingen, TX
    Posts
    669
    Post Likes
    No doubt as you have to have a pair...and know what you are doing

  21. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    va
    Posts
    2,209
    Post Likes
    Their evap design was unique, twisted star tube in a tube, could withstand freeze cycles. Would not try with tube in tube.

  22. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Harlingen, TX
    Posts
    669
    Post Likes
    Yes great design! That's why I said you gotta have a pair to do that with other types of heat exchangers.

  23. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    87
    Post Likes
    If the system otherwise looks to be in good shape, it looks like the refrigerant circuit can hold a vacuum, Id replace the compressor and take the chance, with any luck this system might be only about half way threw its life-cycle.

    Its worth repairing and maintaining properly.

    IMPO

    SR

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •