The “Travel Time” Thing Once Again

[AdrianOmarPerez]

I have reviewed the CS R/HVAC unofficial travel time policy. It’s strange that it was NOT printed on official Company letterhead. The explanation in brevity basically states that 1.5 Hrs will be deducted daily. 0.5 Hrs at the start, 0.5 for Lunch Break, and 0.5 at the finish.
Remember, CS R/HVAC had a Class Action against them for similar infractions about 7 years ago. They settled/lost, and there was a large award. They went to a portal-to-portal systems after that. Why would a company that had a Class Action against them put them themselves back in a similar position? To further complicate things, there was a Union Organizing effort right around that time.
Although the Organizing effort was defeated, the Union Refrigeration sentiment grew, and many Techs in Southern California were picked-off.


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[jayguy]

TRAVEL TIME. I misread that thinking this was a thread about Time Travel. Sorry.

[Bombboy90]

CS R/HVAC? What company?

[AdrianOmarPerez]

Okay, I’ll try make it as much about Travel Time as I can. Let’s say you live within a Metro, and either from your home (or shop), it’s 2 Hrs of straight-up driving to a job site (120 miles away or so). “First and Last is on you”, but said (although NOT agreed on). You as an Employee find out that all 4 Hrs are being Billed To the customer as at the very least “Travel Time”, but the Employer doesN’T want to pay you for the 4 Hrs. Is this fair? Or is this even legal?
Even though it’s NOT the case here - in the Signatory world of National Agreements, there is NO “Travel Time” within the 50 mile radius of your dispatch/assignment. The driving time within the radius is referred to as “Reasonable Commuting Time”. I know this all may fall flat in places were gridlock is common, and 2 hours or more of driving time (within the radius) is normal i.e. SFBA, Greater L.A., etc.


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[hvac69]

Is travel time a state mandated thing? The company seems to be non union according to your earlier post so without it out who mandates this? Sounds more like an agreement then if not officially stated in company bi laws. I never really worried myself over what other people or companies do.

[71CHOPS]

It a fight as old as the industry.....Basically what it comes down to, is this: It's tough to screw a guy that fills out his own time sheets.

You'll have to figure out how to manipulate your time to match company policy. I.e. start or end your day at the shop, or supply house, or have customers that don't care about travel costs.

Or every now and then, be able to be home long before your "billable time" is up, so you get back some unpaid hours.

[jayguy]

It a fight as old as the industry.....Basically what it comes down to, is this: It's tough to screw a guy that fills out his own time sheets….

Yup

[Cagey57]

Yup

Adrian,
"Fair" and "Legal" don't always land at the same place. IMO, if the company is charging for the "Travel" then the employee should, ethically, be paid for the "Time".

Unfortunately "National Agreements" sometimes conflict with State Labor laws and Insurance regulations. I don't know which one would prevail in court.

[hvac69]

Adrian,
"Fair" and "Legal" don't always land at the same place. IMO, if the company is charging for the "Travel" then the employee should, ethically, be paid for the "Time".

Unfortunately "National Agreements" sometimes conflict with State Labor laws and Insurance regulations. I don't know which one would prevail in court.

Fair and Legal exactly. I had an employer that would charge OT for holiday calls and turn around and pay us normal time because they didn't consider the 8hrs holiday towards the 40hrs we must work for OT. I started charging customers reg time on holidays. Got called in about and simply stated if I am not getting paid OT either are you. They changed their policy shortly afterwards. Sometimes its just a matter of standing up and being heard.

[AdrianOmarPerez]

Is travel time a state mandated thing? The company seems to be non union according to your earlier post so without it out who mandates this? Sounds more like an agreement then if not officially stated in company bi laws. I never really worried myself over what other people or companies do.

Correct, the company is predominantly non-union, only their Northern California ops is Union.
I have a dog in this hunt, since I basically sent an immediate family member to work there.

Being after-hours, driving directly to an out-of-town job site, flat tire/accident puts you back on the clock, etc. - how do this change the dynamic? These are “unwritten rules”.

I will go out and just ask it - I believe all of this boils down to Employee performance. Is one more worried about the Employee’s time spent driving or is the Employee a sub-par worker?


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[71CHOPS]

I will go out and just ask it - I believe all of this boils down to Employee performance. Is one more worried about the Employee’s time spent driving or is the Employee a sub-par worker?


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A great service guy can step out of one truck on a Friday, and go put on a different Tshirt Monday morning...

That guy generally doesn't ever get hassled by his employer either.

[AdrianOmarPerez]

A great service guy can step out of one truck on a Friday, and go put on a different Tshirt Monday morning...

That guy generally doesn't ever get hassled by his employer either.

I get what you’re saying. There was a guy that lived 1 Hr out off the interstate, two Hrs of actual Travel Time (just passed the radius). He was in-town for 8.Hrs total including lunch. It was brought up that he should be on-site for 7 Hrs, and maybe 2 Hrs of TT. So I was going to be 50 Hrs weekly - 40 ST and 10 TT for this guy. The reality was that you were NOT going to get 25 Hrs of actual work from the aforementioned guy.


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[AdrianOmarPerez]

Fair and Legal exactly. I had an employer that would charge OT for holiday calls and turn around and pay us normal time because they didn't consider the 8hrs holiday towards the 40hrs we must work for OT. I started charging customers reg time on holidays. Got called in about and simply stated if I am not getting paid OT either are you. They changed their policy shortly afterwards. Sometimes its just a matter of standing up and being heard.

Sometimes you have to make waves like that. But some people areN’T willing to risk their job over it.


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[R600a]

Every time I see the title of this thread I read it as "the time travel thing."

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"Is this before or after you fired the parts cannon at it?" - senior tech

[shellkamp]

Sometimes you have to make waves like that. But some people areN’T willing to risk their job over it.


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At the moment, employees have almost all of the leverage right now.

There's not exactly a line out the door of applicants.

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[71CHOPS]

One thing I learned a long time ago is to not worry about what other guys do or don't do. Just do your thing, and stop worrying about politics.....it makes your job much more pleasant.

If you're having a direct problem, that's one thing, but if you're not, don't worry about it......


I worked with a guy once that lived 2 hours (one way) from our service area. he drove it every single day. He made a deal with the company that he would be gone for 8 hours a day, and collect 8 hours pay....door to door.......we got about 4 hours from him.....and not really that much, he liked to sit in his truck for most of the time he was on site, and tended to do drive by chiller inspections......I was always following him on crap. Eventually he got fired. After that I never knew what to expect on calls cause I wasn't following him anymore!!...before i always had an idea of what he did or didn't do! LOL!!

when I first started with that company, I complained about that guy, but it never went anywhere.....fighting your company on travel time is gonna be the same way. Just like talking to a wall.......

Figure out how to get paid for what you need to get paid for, and forget about the rest, you'll be much happier!

[BBeerme]

Those hours mentioned in the OP sound fair to me. Up to half hour travel to and from is what it was at my last job, which I actually thought was too generous. Where I am now I'll donate up to 45 minutes to and from. Had an office manager try to bust my balls shortly after I started, but I stood my ground.

[AdrianOmarPerez]

Those hours mentioned in the OP sound fair to me. Up to half hour travel to and from is what it was at my last job, which I actually thought was too generous. Where I am now I'll donate up to 45 minutes to and from. Had an office manager try to bust my balls shortly after I started, but I stood my ground.

“Up to” are keywords, but what the unofficial policy stated was automatically 1.5 Hrs per day. So to deduct that time in, let’s say, a day where your driving time to your 1st job was 15 minutes, and you ate your lunch on the way to another job, and it was 10 minutes to home from your last job.
Arizona’s NOT bad for driving. You could live around the Phoenix-Tempe city limits to the East or the Phoenix-Glendale city limits to the west, and be almost anywhere in The Valley within 45 minutes. If you live past Buckeye to the west or Gold Canyon to the east, it’ll be a different story.
The area of concern, more specifically, is if the Contractor is charging for total time including driving/travel, and NOT paying the Employee for it.


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[hvac69]

Then that is something they need to take up with their employer and possibly the local Labor and Industry folks and file a complaint

[71CHOPS]

IF the company is altering an employee's time sheet, that could be a violation of Labor Law.