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Thread: To vax or no to vax?

  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    It has my long been my experience observation that most things the government gets involved in are cluster-mucks before long and often immediately. So far as I can see the majority of government-working are primarily scams to syphon off tax dollars and I certainly have no reason so far to believe that they have gained in altruism, morality, or common sense since I formed that opinion.

    It regard to covid! I didn't take any side but my own - it's not at all political to me. I really don't see how politics has anything to do with it.

    I don't know everything but I can add, subtract, multiply, and divide reasonably well. And right after I mentally noted that the broadcasted numbers didn't work out right - just vaguely hearing them in general - I looked at the covid! death numbers and easily calculated that my chances of dying from covid! was less that one ten thousandths of one percent. Even now it is well under 1% and still much closer to my original number than it is to 1.

    Statistically I had a far greater chance of being drafted into the NFL than of dying from covid!. <g>

    So the idea of being injected by some governmentally fast-tracked somethingorother to supposedly protect me from something I am extremely unlikely to even get, let alone die from, did not appeal to me. It still doesn't.

    OH! Your stated statistics remind me of a funny meme. Hopefully I can find it. <g>

    PHM
    -------

    It's not totally about personal protection but also what you might spread w/o knowing to people less safe.
    I've been stuck with more needles than I can count. The military has some need to try to insure the troupes don't
    catch any bug possible. I've been shot for Malaria, Black River Fever I think, and some I wasn't told about.

    I remember standing in line with others where one guy would stand with his arms at shoulder level and 2 fingers of each
    hand open to receive 4 needles, 2 in each hand, and poke us, 2 guys at a time. then throw the spent needles against a wall in back.
    There was a very large pile of needles.
    Primitive military.
    Just remembering this stuff.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

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  2. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    .
    You guys are amazing. Amongst the many links on the NASA page, which you clearly have not read, are PUBLISHED papers in QUALITY PEER-REVIEWED journals including meta-analyses (which have the HIGHEST level of trustworthiness in science) that SUPPORT 90-100% consensus. I provide published and vetted literature and you google and quote the first jackass on web that provides you with a sentence that agrees with your opinion. You fail how to argue your point convincingly and you are out of your depth here since I KNOW what the actual literature says and you're guessing hoping to find something to support your ill-informed position. My question is do you have any desire to learn something or are you just interested in repeating shit opinions so you can believe you're right and deny that you've been being lied to all this time by people who know you are easily manipulated because they can play on your emotions and they can count on you not really doing any homework other than googling?

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1.../4/048002/meta "The consensus that humans are causing recent global warming is shared by 90%–100% of publishing climate scientists according to six independent studies by co-authors of this paper. Those results are consistent with the 97% consensus reported by Cook et al (Environ. Res. Lett. 8 024024) based on 11 944 abstracts of research papers, of which 4014 took a position on the cause of recent global warming. A survey of authors of those papers (N = 2412 papers) also supported a 97% consensus. Tol (2016 Environ. Res. Lett. 11 048001) comes to a different conclusion using results from surveys of non-experts such as economic geologists and a self-selected group of those who reject the consensus. We demonstrate that this outcome is not unexpected because the level of consensus correlates with expertise in climate science. At one point, Tol also reduces the apparent consensus by assuming that abstracts that do not explicitly state the cause of global warming ('no position') represent non-endorsement, an approach that if applied elsewhere would reject consensus on well-established theories such as plate tectonics. We examine the available studies and conclude that the finding of 97% consensus in published climate research is robust and consistent with other surveys of climate scientists and peer-reviewed studies."

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es501998e "Consistent with other research, we found that, as the level of expertise in climate science grew, so too did the level of agreement on anthropogenic causation. 90% of respondents with more than 10 climate-related peer-reviewed publications (about half of all respondents), explicitly agreed with anthropogenic greenhouse gases (GHGs) being the dominant driver of recent global warming."

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...326/8/2/024024 "Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus."

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  4. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Went to an urgent care facility yesterday. They wanted me to cover my nose. Told the gal, let's go outside and talk. She explained how hot they were. I'm like, whatever. I just got off a 100*F roof and it was barely 90*F where she was. Told her I'm not going to spend hours on a ladder breathing in my own exhaust. She said, let me get the director.

    Director went on and on. Mentioning several times that he was The Director. I just told him, more than once, look, you got your rules, and I am following them. I'm going to pick up my tools and drive away.
    WoW! Did he fold and let you work without a mask?

    There is no way I would tolerate that kind of attitude. And I’ll stop right there.

  5. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by idmd View Post
    You guys are amazing. Amongst the many links on the NASA page, which you clearly have not read, are PUBLISHED papers in QUALITY PEER-REVIEWED journals including meta-analyses (which have the HIGHEST level of trustworthiness in science) that SUPPORT 90-100% consensus. I provide published and vetted literature and you google and quote the first jackass on web that provides you with a sentence that agrees with your opinion. You fail how to argue your point convincingly and you are out of your depth here since I KNOW what the actual literature says and you're guessing hoping to find something to support your ill-informed position. My question is do you have any desire to learn something or are you just interested in repeating shit opinions so you can believe you're right and deny that you've been being lied to all this time by people who know you are easily manipulated because they can play on your emotions and they can count on you not really doing any homework other than googling?

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1.../4/048002/meta "The consensus that humans are causing recent global warming is shared by 90%–100% of publishing climate scientists according to six independent studies by co-authors of this paper. Those results are consistent with the 97% consensus reported by Cook et al (Environ. Res. Lett. 8 024024) based on 11 944 abstracts of research papers, of which 4014 took a position on the cause of recent global warming. A survey of authors of those papers (N = 2412 papers) also supported a 97% consensus. Tol (2016 Environ. Res. Lett. 11 048001) comes to a different conclusion using results from surveys of non-experts such as economic geologists and a self-selected group of those who reject the consensus. We demonstrate that this outcome is not unexpected because the level of consensus correlates with expertise in climate science. At one point, Tol also reduces the apparent consensus by assuming that abstracts that do not explicitly state the cause of global warming ('no position') represent non-endorsement, an approach that if applied elsewhere would reject consensus on well-established theories such as plate tectonics. We examine the available studies and conclude that the finding of 97% consensus in published climate research is robust and consistent with other surveys of climate scientists and peer-reviewed studies."

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es501998e "Consistent with other research, we found that, as the level of expertise in climate science grew, so too did the level of agreement on anthropogenic causation. 90% of respondents with more than 10 climate-related peer-reviewed publications (about half of all respondents), explicitly agreed with anthropogenic greenhouse gases (GHGs) being the dominant driver of recent global warming."

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...326/8/2/024024 "Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus."

    This is what the thought process has morphed into. It's like why bother with education when many put their brains on hold in favor of emotional rhetoric.
    I even have to ask why the sources they favor would do America this disservice. Bunk peddlers. Flim Flam.
    It's actually closer to not trusting people with educations. Mistrust and envy that someone might actually know better.
    I know it doesn't have to be this way. One of my most influential writers, Eric Hoffer, was a longshoreman.
    The nitty gritty of the process behind a lot of this is anti-intellectualism. Liberals are perceived as educated and above
    the working stiffs.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

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  7. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliks View Post
    I am only going to comment on one thing, you are totally and completely wrong if you think that most of the racism comes from the whites. The whites are the ones being treated badly!
    When white guys are on the top the only ones left to treat them badly are other withe guys.
    Hey, I'm not reluctant to call it as I see it. I know working class white people and many are racists through and through
    but probably would lie about it because it's not socially acceptable. So like the KKK before them they keep it well hidden.
    Same old hood.
    I can know this because I also know a leopard doesn't change it's spots. America has always been a raciest country. Maybe it
    was a stretch to think different races could live together. Our history clearly shows the manifest destiny of white people in America.
    So just own up to it and stop the denial.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

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  9. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Consensus, agreement on the evidence.
    Some of the scientists might have been more in agreement that CC is contributed by man but not necessarily caused by man.
    I think man could screw up a wet dream if given the chance.
    We inhabit what seems like a beautiful place. Given time man trashes most everything and kills what ever stands still long enough.
    In the end Nature will win and we'll be long gone.
    I wish there was more hope but what we see happening is not the beginning. The beginning happened long ago.
    F***ing up my planet is not forgivable.
    Science is solidly based on evidence, either is happening and there is irrefutable proof or is NOT happening at all.
    There is not better place for the working men than the union! 100% UA the only HVAC union!

  10. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    When white guys are on the top the only ones left to treat them badly are other withe guys.
    Hey, I'm not reluctant to call it as I see it. I know working class white people and many are racists through and through
    but probably would lie about it because it's not socially acceptable. So like the KKK before them they keep it well hidden.
    Same old hood.
    I can know this because I also know a leopard doesn't change it's spots. America has always been a raciest country. Maybe it
    was a stretch to think different races could live together. Our history clearly shows the manifest destiny of white people in America.
    So just own up to it and stop the denial.
    America is NOT a racist nation, this country is the most accepting culture is the world, we welcome everyone here and all have a chance to make it, there is only one group of people constantly using the racism card to justify their criminal behavior.
    There is not better place for the working men than the union! 100% UA the only HVAC union!

  11. #628
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    Love you guys
    Can always come here after a long day and y'all make me laugh lol

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  13. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    When white guys are on the top the only ones left to treat them badly are other withe guys.
    Hey, I'm not reluctant to call it as I see it. I know working class white people and many are racists through and through
    but probably would lie about it because it's not socially acceptable. So like the KKK before them they keep it well hidden.
    Same old hood.
    I can know this because I also know a leopard doesn't change it's spots. America has always been a raciest country. Maybe it
    was a stretch to think different races could live together. Our history clearly shows the manifest destiny of white people in America.
    So just own up to it and stop the denial.
    You are out of touch for sure, by the way I have a grandson that is half black, fantastic good looking kid, love that kid!

  14. #630
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    You are so wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    President Obama did what he could to try to unite a racist Nation. He didn't fail, the country did. Mostly from
    racist white people.
    If you actually believe Trump "did what he could" you live under a rock. Trump embraced division because
    I believe he thought he could build an army of support by giving life to that "basket of deplorables."

    The opposition was justified based on how transparent Trump's objectives were. I believe Trump
    and a few others wanted to actually end those pesky elections. Declare himself like Putin, President for life.
    Why don't you just put me on ignore.We have little in common.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  15. #631
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    I put a scarf over my mouth to give the illusion of a mask. But no, they demanded me cover my nose, breath my own exhaust, and risk getting light headed and falling off of my ladder. So, as I said, I picked up my tools and left. Punk director wasn't very happy. Like I give a crap. Jeez, I work in hotter weather than you, get a grip.

    I would think that someone in the medical industry would know how useless masks are.

    Maybe a year ago, a doctor tried to argue with me. I asked him a simple question. He stated he was not going to discuss the issue with me. I did not verbally respond. Except for probably a bit of laughter. Picked up my tools, turned, and walked away. My boss dude got an angry phone call.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobie View Post
    WoW! Did he fold and let you work without a mask?

    There is no way I would tolerate that kind of attitude. And I’ll stop right there.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  16. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliks View Post
    You are out of touch for sure, by the way I have a grandson that is half black, fantastic good looking kid, love that kid!
    I wasn't referring to you or the exception you might be.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  17. #633
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    What's the exception ?
    That he's got a interracial grandchild or that interracial children are few ?

  18. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    America is NOT a racist nation, this country is the most accepting culture is the world, we welcome everyone here and all have a chance to make it, there is only one group of people constantly using the racism card to justify their criminal behavior.
    If like you say, America is "this country is the most accepting culture is the world, we welcome everyone here and all have a chance to make it" we wouldn't have the strife minorities face daily and we wouldn't have the problems at our S. border if we really wanted a brown nation.
    I'm at the age where I'm tired of rhetoric. We are constantly flooded with politicians and religious trying to convince us that we are not what we are. We are an experiment in socializing people that are more like oil and water.
    Our policies in government were to posses the idea of Manifest Destiny. A solidly white European ideal. They wasted no time addressing the First Nation that our government would "Kill the savage and save the Indian." This was policy in America and still is to a somewhat lesser degree unless you ask. While you might sit and enjoy your blessings, a lot of people on reservations still have no running water.

    Give it up man. With eyes wide open just look.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  19. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    What's the exception ?
    That he's got a interracial grandchild or that interracial children are few ?
    Few.
    And for another example many people won't react in a one on one. It's when the "Others" are impersonal.
    We are taught culturally in sometimes subtle ways. Example: Most know the things said about people that identify as First Nation.
    Indian giver is a cheat. Indian tobacco is a false tobacco, there's Indian lemonade that has no lemons.
    That black's smell different. The list is way too long. But race supports the idea of superiority. So much so that when asked, little black kids said they thought the white doll was prettier than the other dolls.
    To deny these facts is to deny the sun will rise tomorrow.
    Give me a relay with big enough contacts, and I'll run the world!

    You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.

    If a person wants to create a machine that will be more likely to fail...Make it complicated.

    USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49

  20. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    If like you say, America is "this country is the most accepting culture is the world, we welcome everyone here and all have a chance to make it" we wouldn't have the strife minorities face daily and we wouldn't have the problems at our S. border if we really wanted a brown nation.
    I'm at the age where I'm tired of rhetoric. We are constantly flooded with politicians and religious trying to convince us that we are not what we are. We are an experiment in socializing people that are more like oil and water.
    Our policies in government were to posses the idea of Manifest Destiny. A solidly white European ideal. They wasted no time addressing the First Nation that our government would "Kill the savage and save the Indian." This was policy in America and still is to a somewhat lesser degree unless you ask. While you might sit and enjoy your blessings, a lot of people on reservations still have no running water.

    Give it up man. With eyes wide open just look.
    Maybe the "the strife minorities and the Indians should stop complaining and go to work, make a living on their own instead of living off taxpayers bucks.
    The people that complain the most about America are the ones that contribute the least to this country.
    Hate and racism are part of human nature and exist all over the world, the problem is the American media makes it looks like those issues are only happening here, there are racist individuals of all colors in this country no doubt but they are a very small minority.
    There is not better place for the working men than the union! 100% UA the only HVAC union!

  21. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    Science is solidly based on evidence, either is happening and there is irrefutable proof or is NOT happening at all.
    This is the most patently false statement you've made so far and you clearly don't know how the scientific process works or what the actual data says.


    Science is based on evidence but I can think of very few situations where it is cut and dry, black and white, a simple yes or no. Climate change is an INCREDIBLY complex and dynamic phenomenon and as with EVERY SINGLE OTHER AREA of science, there will be data all over the place. Papers will be published that contradict each other. Science is a PROCESS by which data is collected and analyzed and over time a picture is formed. That picture will also change with time. That's the strength of science.

    What is your definition of irrefutable proof? If it's 100% agreement then that's ridiculously naive. There are NO AREAS in science that require (or should require) 100% consensus to be deemed true. If your benchmark is 100% of the tens of thousands of scientists in a particular field must agree or the phenomenon being studied must not be true, well, you are truly lost about everything from human nature to science, and using your criteria no science would be produced ever. Are there papers in peer-reviewed journals stating climate change is not anthropogenic? Yes! What is the ratio of published papers stating climate change is anthropogenic vs not?

    1. J. Cook, et al, "Consensus on consensus: a synthesis of consensus estimates on human-caused global warming," Environmental Research Letters Vol. 11 No. 4, (13 April 2016); DOI:10.1088/1748-9326/11/4/048002

    Quotation from page 6: "The number of papers rejecting AGW [Anthropogenic, or human-caused, Global Warming] is a minuscule proportion of the published research, with the percentage slightly decreasing over time. Among papers expressing a position on AGW, an overwhelming percentage (97.2% based on self-ratings, 97.1% based on abstract ratings) endorses the scientific consensus on AGW.”


    2. J. Cook, et al, "Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature," Environmental Research Letters Vol. 8 No. 2, (15 May 2013); DOI:10.1088/1748-9326/8/2/024024

    Quotation from page 3: "Among abstracts that expressed a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the scientific consensus. Among scientists who expressed a position on AGW in their abstract, 98.4% endorsed the consensus.”

    If the 3% of papers that disagree with human activity driving climate change really disqualifies this very good science then you have entirely unrealistic expectations. As for what does the actual data say? The ONLY logical conclusion here is, and this is about as one-sided as you will ever see in science, there IS IRREFUTABLE evidence that human activity is driving climate change - no matter what some jackass on Youtube says.

  22. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    Maybe the "the strife minorities and the Indians should stop complaining and go to work, make a living on their own instead of living off taxpayers bucks.
    The people that complain the most about America are the ones that contribute the least to this country.
    Hate and racism are part of human nature and exist all over the world, the problem is the American media makes it looks like those issues are only happening here, there are racist individuals of all colors in this country no doubt but they are a very small minority.
    I know several people of color who are college-educated and earn six figures (and thus "contribute their fair share") and every one of them has story after story of racism. My best friend is a person of color with mixed-race children and a physician. Just off the top of my head:

    1. A few years ago on the T in Boston, an old lady leaned in to whisper into his wife's ear, "You're standing too close to that black man, sweetie".

    2. Their 4-year-old twin girls were referred to as "nigglets"

    3. He was a refugee from Africa who fled civil war as a 7-year-old in Libera where he had to leave his mother behind and flee with his aunt, he watched his best friend's head get bashed in by an AK-47, and then spent 9 months fleeing to this country. Fast forward and he's a Harvard-educated doctor and he still has people request "a white doctor" even before they meet him.

    Every person of color has these stories while I have never been the subject of racism that I can remember. This is also happening in liberal Massachusetts - I can't imagine what happens in Mississippi. So is my friend just supposed to shut up, accept his beautiful little girls getting called names, pay his fair share, and "get past it"?

  23. #639
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    Science without evidence is sometimes called "correlation", I call it superstition. Consensus is a fancy word for guessing, is mankind filling the blanks.
    Is global warming real? now they call it climate change, maybe is real or not, its man made? nobody knows for sure, the planet has gone through hot,cold periods before without human intervention.
    There is not better place for the working men than the union! 100% UA the only HVAC union!

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    They tried to vaccinate Doug Baldwin too.

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