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Thread: 2 Ton or 3 Ton System

  1. #1
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    2 Ton or 3 Ton System

    Greetings,

    I'm in the process of replacing my mid-80s heater and exterior AC in Southern California. I'm getting various bids and such but the last company made a strange comment. My question for you is -- did their comment reveal they are clueless or the only vendor with a clue?

    I have a two story condo. Ancient 2 Ton Trane AC on my patio. Gas heater in the attic. 1300 square feet. The first 3 vendors have recommended going up to a 3 Ton machine. This last vendor looked at these --

    (see attachment)

    I can't give you the measurements he quoted me but he suggested those 'pipes' would strain a 3 ton system and wear it out faster. I appreciate the concept but do not understand why 3 other companies were A-OKAY with them.

    Devil's Advocating here but couldn't someone also argue that using a 2 Ton system in a home that could use a 3 ton system strain the new 2 Ton system?

    I thank you in ADVANCE for pertinent advice.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cllueless Carl View Post
    Greetings,

    I'm in the process of replacing my mid-80s heater and
    exterior AC in Southern California.

    I'm getting various bids and such but the last company made a strange comment.
    My question for you is -- did their comment reveal they are clueless or the only vendor with a clue?

    I have a two story condo. Ancient 2 Ton Trane AC on my patio.
    Gas heater in the attic.
    1,300 square feet.

    The first 3 vendors have
    recommended going up to a 3 Ton machine.

    This last vendor looked at these --
    (see attachment)

    I can't give you the measurements he quoted me but he suggested those 'pipes' would strain a 3 ton system and wear it out faster. I appreciate the concept but do not understand why 3 other companies were A-OKAY with them.

    Devil's Advocating here but couldn't someone also argue that using a 2 Ton system in a home that could use a 3 ton system strain the new 2 Ton system?

    I thank you in ADVANCE for pertinent advice.
    Some applicable reasons must be determined to
    Show Cause for
    The Downgrade to a larger A/C system ...

    1. Some glass panes in the windows are missing.
    2. Floor has visible cracks.
    3. Condo was built 1842 and no improvement have been made.
    4. ...
    5. ..
    Designer Dan __ It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with Some Art. _ _ KEEP IT SIMPLE & SINCERE ___ __ www.mysimplifiedhvac.com ___ __ Define the Building Envelope & Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows & Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  3. #3
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    Thread Starter
    I lost my decoder ring.

    Is that your way of saying 2 Tons... is fun?

  4. #4
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    I assume that he is looking at the install instructions, and it says to use a larger diameter copper line set for whatever 3-ton equipment he might install for you. Just ask to see it, and you will know. You could just as easily ask the other guys to see the same. Having said that, Installers sometimes don't follow the instructions for whatever reason. I've had customers flip out over installing new copper because they don't understand. The answer for the size unit that you need should be done with a heat load and not just because some guy thinks you need something bigger. I've had people flip out over heat loads as well and just want the same size they already have. I definitely wouldn't suggest to upsize it for no reason.

  5. #5
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    Did they say your existing ductwork could handle a 50% increase A/C capacity going from a 2 ton to a 3 ton system? There’s no such thing as one size fits all ductwork.

    Thinking if you have hot/cold spots now would be a good time to mention it, what did they say about installing a larger unit on your existing ductwork. Does it need to be sealed, modified enlarged?

  6. Likes kdean1 liked this post.
  7. #6
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    Thread Starter
    I assume that he is looking at the install instructions, and it says to use a larger diameter copper line set for whatever 3-ton equipment


    The unit hasn't been purchased yet. I'm getting quotes. The last guy just looked at the line and said (from experience, I presume) it couldn't handle 3 Ton.

    (Thanks for reply)

  8. #7
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    Did they say your existing ductwork could handle a 50% increase A/C capacity

    The first few quotes said nothing about the line. Meaning adding another ton was no even an issue, to them.

    (Thanks for reply)

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cllueless Carl View Post
    I assume that he is looking at the install instructions, and it says to use a larger diameter copper line set for whatever 3-ton equipment


    The unit hasn't been purchased yet. I'm getting quotes. The last guy just looked at the line and said (from experience, I presume) it couldn't handle 3 Ton.

    (Thanks for reply)
    If he installs the same units regularly, he doesn't need to look if he already knows. The other guys may use a different manufacturer, and the requirements may be different, or they may want to be the low bidder and get in and out, or maybe they think they know better. Who knows. I agree about the ductwork issue as well. So that you know, I talked to one of the manufacturers and asked how big of a deal it was not to use the recommended copper size. The answer was big enough to void the warranty and shorten the compressor's life, so I let all of my customers know, and most are cool with doing it the correct way.

  10. #9
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    Here is a Goodman chart for line size for SSZ series 14 seer.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  11. #10
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    This condo
    Units above, below, left, right side?

    Sounds like the last guy is more concerned with getting it right then making a sale!

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  13. #11
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    Upsizing is a hack move. Common thinking is bigger is better but that is completely wrong.
    Your question about "straining a new 2 ton system" is based on the premise that motors need to rest. They do not. Modern equipment is rated for "continuous duty", meaning running continuously will not damage it. Short run cycles result in poor dehumidification. Cycling is what wears out motors.

    If you have rooms that do not cool adequately, it is a distribution issue, NOT a sizing issue.

    I frequently find oversized equipment. I cannot remember finding undersized equipment unless an enormous addition was added.

    Re. the tubing sizes, if you can provide us with measurements of the outside diameter we can better answer your question.
    *********
    https://www.hvac20.com/ High efficiency equipment alone does not provide home comfort and efficiency. HVAC2.0 is a process for finding the real needs of the house and the occupants. Offer the customer a menu of work to address their problems and give them a probability of success.

    Find contractors with specialized training in combustion analysis, residential system performance, air flow, and duct optimization https://www.myhomecomfort.org/


    Site member map HERE!

  14. #12
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    This condo
    Units above, below, left, right side?

    Sounds like the last guy is more concerned with getting it right then making a sale!


    Condo is a corner unit townhome and so only a unit to one side.

    Not only was the vendor honest but he decided not to gauge me for my Zip Code. I'm on the 'poor' side of a ritzy town and all other vendors were thousands more for no reason. So I went to Yelp and found a company 30 minutes East and wanted the price they offer people in their area.

  15. #13
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    Upsizing is a hack move. Common thinking is bigger is better but that is completely wrong.
    Your question about "straining a new 2 ton system" is based on the premise that motors need to rest. They do not. Modern equipment is rated for "continuous duty", meaning running continuously will not damage it. Short run cycles result in poor dehumidification. Cycling is what wears out motors.

    If you have rooms that do not cool adequately, it is a distribution issue, NOT a sizing issue.

    I frequently find oversized equipment. I cannot remember finding undersized equipment unless an enormous addition was added.

    Re. the tubing sizes, if you can provide us with measurements of the outside diameter we can better answer your question.


    Their estimate arrive this morning with a 2.5 system -- which is better for my square footage.

    Would you say take it? By the by -- they gave me 5 years labor where other pricier companies were happy with 2. I aim to be out of this condo within 10 years.

    Thanks for replies, everyone!

  16. #14
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    You cant size by sq ft. That same sq ft exposed on all 4 sides is different then one with 2 outside walls.

    Nothing above, below?

  17. #15
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    You can’t size by sq ft.

    That's what he said

  18. #16
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    Thanks everyone. I'm going with this 2.5 ton guy. (He really needs to go on a diet.)

  19. #17
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    1 1/2 - 2 may be more then enough

  20. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cllueless Carl View Post
    Upsizing is a hack move. Common thinking is bigger is better but that is completely wrong.
    Your question about "straining a new 2 ton system" is based on the premise that motors need to rest. They do not. Modern equipment is rated for "continuous duty", meaning running continuously will not damage it. Short run cycles result in poor dehumidification. Cycling is what wears out motors.

    If you have rooms that do not cool adequately, it is a distribution issue, NOT a sizing issue.

    I frequently find oversized equipment. I cannot remember finding undersized equipment unless an enormous addition was added.

    Re. the tubing sizes, if you can provide us with measurements of the outside diameter we can better answer your question.


    Their estimate arrive this morning with a 2.5 system -- which is better for my square footage.

    Would you say take it? By the by -- they gave me 5 years labor where other pricier companies were happy with 2. I aim to be out of this condo within 10 years.

    Thanks for replies, everyone!
    NO, DON’T TAKE IT!



    Why do I even bother? Homeowners come here hoping to hear what they’ve already decided.
    *********
    https://www.hvac20.com/ High efficiency equipment alone does not provide home comfort and efficiency. HVAC2.0 is a process for finding the real needs of the house and the occupants. Offer the customer a menu of work to address their problems and give them a probability of success.

    Find contractors with specialized training in combustion analysis, residential system performance, air flow, and duct optimization https://www.myhomecomfort.org/


    Site member map HERE!

  21. #19
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    Please explain how 2.5 tons is better for your square footage.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

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  23. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider77 View Post
    Please explain how 2.5 tons is better for your square footage.
    Maybe it is a smaller unit so it will take up less room.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

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