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Thread: Finally Fed Up With HVAC!

  1. #1
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    Finally Fed Up With HVAC!

    Hi! I posted a while ago and I got great advice from many contractors the most being take my time and get a lot of bids. Well I have taken 2 years and have had many bids which to be honest I am so sick of! I honestly feel like it is a waste of time. They look at my attic and want to just replace the same system and possibly add a mini split to the one problem room...

    Here is the set up:
    2- 5 Ton Rheem with gas furnace. 5,250 square foot 2 story home in San Diego, Ca. One unit for each floor. First floor 2,500 sq ft and really don’t have issues. Second floor has a theater room and it is at the opposite end of the house from the thermostat. That room gets over 90 degrees in winter if we have 5 kids in there watching a movie. You know the scenario... I have to turn on the 5 ton upstairs unit when my room is 67 degrees and I am freezing 😊 (yes I know I am a wimp what can I say). The other issue is we have a bedroom built on top of the garage on the far end of the house from the thermostat and it is impossible to get it warm in winter and cool during the summer. Now if I want to get picky the 3rd issue is the bedroom directly under the furnace in the attic and that bedroom gets to much air flow even when I try closing the vents.

    So the contractors solution is 2 more 5 ton units with a zoning system. I have heard these are only good when you have an installer that KNOWS how to install it properly and I am not willing to take that chance especially with the price tag!

    So our 5 ton unit upstairs just pooped out!!! Where can I find someone to install either a ducted Mitsubishi VRF system or the Diakin VRV system? I have had one company say they could do the Dianlin VRV but it would be triple the cost of replacing both units with a zooming system 🤷*♀️. So my last thought is rip out the ducting and cap off those old ducts and replace the 5 ton with a 2 ton or what ever size condenser and system and then do a 3 zone DUCTED mini split with a branchbox so I will only have one line set coming down the wall from the exterior of the house? Not sure why the line sets can’t be bundled and be run in the attic and come down on the existing exterior wall where our current thermal solar pipes for pool come down from the roof and it is right by the 2 huge 5 ton condensers are now. It is pretty far from the furthest room but I would expect it is doable because we have an attic!!! The 5 ton condenser would be gone and only a 2 ton would be out there then I should have room for the outdoor cassette unit for the 3 zone ducted mini-split right? Or am I way off? Oh we added solar so the 2 ton unit I would probably want a dual fuel/hybrid heat pump and furnace option because gas has gone through the roof and electricity is crazy expensive if I haven’t produced enough during the day from our solar panels. Why can’t I find anyone in Southern California that knows anything about these VRV or VRF or DUCTED mini split systems? What are your suggestions. Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    Ask Jacob

    https://performancebasedheatingandair.com/

    Ask him to put in a either a high static or medium static ducted slim duct unit. You may have to redo some ductwork to make it happen. Also make sure your return ductwork is sized correctly..for slim ducts sometimes twice as big return air is needed.

    Btw Fujitsu also has a new air handler that is a heatpump and works with mini split capacity and it can push alot of air with a ESP of 1.0. Let me see if I can find that for you.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socalgirl View Post
    Hi! I posted a while ago and I got great advice from many contractors the most being take my time and get a lot of bids. Well I have taken 2 years and have had many bids which to be honest I am so sick of! I honestly feel like it is a waste of time. They look at my attic and want to just replace the same system and possibly add a mini split to the one problem room...

    Here is the set up:
    2- 5 Ton Rheem with gas furnace. 5,250 square foot 2 story home in San Diego, Ca. One unit for each floor. First floor 2,500 sq ft and really don’t have issues. Second floor has a theater room and it is at the opposite end of the house from the thermostat. That room gets over 90 degrees in winter if we have 5 kids in there watching a movie. You know the scenario... I have to turn on the 5 ton upstairs unit when my room is 67 degrees and I am freezing (yes I know I am a wimp what can I say). The other issue is we have a bedroom built on top of the garage on the far end of the house from the thermostat and it is impossible to get it warm in winter and cool during the summer. Now if I want to get picky the 3rd issue is the bedroom directly under the furnace in the attic and that bedroom gets to much air flow even when I try closing the vents.

    So the contractors solution is 2 more 5 ton units with a zoning system. I have heard these are only good when you have an installer that KNOWS how to install it properly and I am not willing to take that chance especially with the price tag!

    So our 5 ton unit upstairs just pooped out!!! Where can I find someone to install either a ducted Mitsubishi VRF system or the Diakin VRV system? I have had one company say they could do the Dianlin VRV but it would be triple the cost of replacing both units with a zooming system *. So my last thought is rip out the ducting and cap off those old ducts and replace the 5 ton with a 2 ton or what ever size condenser and system and then do a 3 zone DUCTED mini split with a branchbox so I will only have one line set coming down the wall from the exterior of the house? Not sure why the line sets can’t be bundled and be run in the attic and come down on the existing exterior wall where our current thermal solar pipes for pool come down from the roof and it is right by the 2 huge 5 ton condensers are now. It is pretty far from the furthest room but I would expect it is doable because we have an attic!!! The 5 ton condenser would be gone and only a 2 ton would be out there then I should have room for the outdoor cassette unit for the 3 zone ducted mini-split right? Or am I way off? Oh we added solar so the 2 ton unit I would probably want a dual fuel/hybrid heat pump and furnace option because gas has gone through the roof and electricity is crazy expensive if I haven’t produced enough during the day from our solar panels. Why can’t I find anyone in Southern California that knows anything about these VRV or VRF or DUCTED mini split systems? What are your suggestions. Thanks in advance!
    Best advise i can give is to get into contact with Mitsubishi or Daikin. They can give you contacts to there more reputable contractors. Most of my bigger jobs are referred to us from the dealer.
    As far as help there are way, way, way to many variables to help guide you. Good luck.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mofotech View Post
    Ask Jacob

    https://performancebasedheatingandair.com/

    Ask him to put in a either a high static or medium static ducted slim duct unit. You may have to redo some ductwork to make it happen. Also make sure your return ductwork is sized correctly..for slim ducts sometimes twice as big return air is needed.

    Btw Fujitsu also has a new air handler that is a heatpump and works with mini split capacity and it can push alot of air with a ESP of 1.0. Let me see if I can find that for you.
    Jake is 400 miles away. If this falls in his area then I hope he pays for hotels and meals. Lol.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoramax View Post
    Jake is 400 miles away. If this falls in his area then I hope he pays for hotels and meals. Lol.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Oh damn.. ya thats not going to work lolll

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoramax View Post
    Jake is 400 miles away. If this falls in his area then I hope he pays for hotels and meals. Lol.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    I wish I could work in Southern California instead of South Carolina.. would make your house so comfortable and efficient.. your job would be my niche.. I'm in this business for the challenges not the easy money. Old fashion standard called PRIDE.. few and far between anymore unfortunately.. good luck friend!


    Ps.. have you considered Carrier 3 pipe? Not sure they are putting in residential yet .. there's apparently intense factory training required to even purchase the equipment. Worth looking into.

    I just finished a job where we put 3 ducted Mitsubishi air handlers on one outdoor unit. As 1 of 3 systems in the home. Sounds very familiar actually. They are zoned and working beautifully downside is without VRF yiu will not be able to heat some zone and cool others. For this reason and better efficiency over all I would want 3 one on one 2 pipe minisplit systems. That way you can cool the theater and heat the bedrooms and not have to pay the price tag of VRF. And 1 on 1 are always the most efficient. Or even 1 two on one and 1 one one one for the theater
    A saturated coil is a happy coil
    Say "I just need a little Freon" one more time!

  8. Likes Zamoramax liked this post.
  9. #8
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    Hire an engineer to design your system. Why would any business man spend so much time designing an hvac system to hear “that’s a lot of money”.

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  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACmedic911 View Post
    I wish I could work in Southern California instead of South Carolina.. would make your house so comfortable and efficient.. your job would be my niche.. I'm in this business for the challenges not the easy money. Old fashion standard called PRIDE.. few and far between anymore unfortunately.. good luck friend!


    Ps.. have you considered Carrier 3 pipe? Not sure they are putting in residential yet .. there's apparently intense factory training required to even purchase the equipment. Worth looking into.

    I just finished a job where we put 3 ducted Mitsubishi air handlers on one outdoor unit. As 1 of 3 systems in the home. Sounds very familiar actually. They are zoned and working beautifully downside is without VRF yiu will not be able to heat some zone and cool others. For this reason and better efficiency over all I would want 3 one on one 2 pipe minisplit systems. That way you can cool the theater and heat the bedrooms and not have to pay the price tag of VRF. And 1 on 1 are always the most efficient. Or even 1 two on one and 1 one one one for the theater
    A saturated coil is a happy coil
    I believe Carrier is the only one out right now to have a single phase heat recovery system. I dont know that it would suffice with the house size to this application. I repaired a R2 system that was in a 8,000ish²ft home. 10 ton with a phase perfect phase inverter. That bugger was loud and annoying. Atleast it was on the side of the garage. My point in all of this is there are alot of things to consider. Duct sizes, room sizes, heat load, fan coil space and access, let alone power availability.
    I'm just spitballing here but you could set a S series 5 ton with a 2 ton fan coil for the theater and 3 ton for the house and use multi position fan coils but the vast amount of variables could change it all. I agree with a previous statement to get a mechanical engineer to spec something but most importantly you need someone that can competently install the system. I believe we have somewhere on the site where our guys advertise. Might be in AOP.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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  13. #10
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    LG makes one but it's only up to 5 tons. Which might work for this application. Personally I think the OP is better off contacting a commercial contractor. I live in San Diego and I can tell you the residential companies would just tell you to put a mini split in that room. Which might be the most simple solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoramax View Post
    I believe Carrier is the only one out right now to have a single phase heat recovery system. I dont know that it would suffice with the house size to this application. I repaired a R2 system that was in a 8,000ish²ft home. 10 ton with a phase perfect phase inverter. That bugger was loud and annoying. Atleast it was on the side of the garage. My point in all of this is there are alot of things to consider. Duct sizes, room sizes, heat load, fan coil space and access, let alone power availability.
    I'm just spitballing here but you could set a S series 5 ton with a 2 ton fan coil for the theater and 3 ton for the house and use multi position fan coils but the vast amount of variables could change it all. I agree with a previous statement to get a mechanical engineer to spec something but most importantly you need someone that can competently install the system. I believe we have somewhere on the site where our guys advertise. Might be in AOP.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  14. #11
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    2 years?
    If I do a job in 30 minutes it's because I spent 30 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.

  15. #12
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    Jacob would probably do a good job for you, but yes you'd pay for the trip out and his housing while he takes on the job. If you want good help it costs money, otherwise you'll have decide between doing it yourself for cheap, or hiring an unlicensed craigslist contractor

  16. #13
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    I'm in San Diego. Feel free to message me if I can help although my time is pretty limited these days.

  17. #14
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    Finally Fed Up With HVAC!

    I’m not a fan of daikin vrv...definitely go with Mitsubishi but going vrf in general is going to be expensive.

    Also residential companies typically don’t do vrf. The vast majority of vrf is done by commercial companies.
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

  18. #15
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    If it was me I would simply replace the systems as needed with basic 14 seer equipment. Then install a few minisplits in problem areas, and maybe look into other important elements of the equation such as insulation. In general I think you’ll be better off just keeping things as simple as possible.
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

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