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Thread: New AC for 25 year old home

  1. #1
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    New AC for 25 year old home

    I'm reaching out to an experienced HVAC pro to give me a second opinion.
    I had a Bryant 926TA60 furnace installed 3 years ago. I need new AC. A local HVAC contractor (who is not a Bryant dealer) assured me that if I replaced my old condenser/compressor and A coil with a Lennex EL18XCVS048 AC and a CX35-48C-6F evaporator coil (with new line set) they would be compatible. Should I feel assured? Your opinion is appreciated. I understand that they will not be "matched" so I won't be getting a rebate. . .

    Richard

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  2. #2
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    Why are you replacing a 3 year old system?

  3. #3
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    IMO, Your better off getting a Bryant system that matches your current furnace, for rebates at the very least.

    The Lennox coil to outdoor unit is a match,....but only if your using certain model Lennox furnaces. Your only guessing at the SEER and EER rating as is.

    May want to check if Lennox will warranty the full manufacturers warranty if it’s not a matched AHRI system.

    Ask a Bryant Dealer for a AHRI match to your existing furnace as you need a number ( AHRI ) for rebates if you want those, and be able to tell your ratings.

    Did you apply for rebates on your furnace 3 years ago?

    Hopefully you registered your furnace as manufacturers warranty decreases if it never got registered.

    Tax Credit info: https://www.energystar.gov/about/fed...ty_tax_credits

    Are they doing a load calculation to see what you really need or just replacing like tonnage?

    Have you tightened up your residence since the existing A/C was installed, if so you may not need the same size.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joe; 05-04-2021 at 08:50 PM.

  4. #4
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Why are you replacing a 3 year old system?
    I'm not replacing the 3 year old furnace. Only replacing the condenser/compressor and evaporator coil.

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  5. #5
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks for your quick response. I received 3 bids. The Bryant dealer, who installed the furnace 3 years ago was $1,500 more than the Lennex. Plus the Lennex dealer included the rewiring to the new AC location where the Bryant didn't include the wiring. Also, the Bryant dealer only bid a single speed AC. I think the rebate for the Bryant AC was $400. Add it all up and I would be paying more than $1,500 more for a less efficient system. I have 4 zones in the 3,000 s.f. home and felt it would be best to have a variable speed AC than the single speed.

    I did get the rebate for the furnace. And I did register the furnace.

    I will definitely ask about the warranty being good without the matched system.

    Richard

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  6. #6
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    Find another Company that sells and is trained on the variable speed Bryants if the company does not feel confident or is trained on variable speed compressors, as certainly those systems tend to be complicated. What training does this Lennox dealer have on the lennox model they propose? Your only guessing at the SEER and EER on the Lennox, as you can’t go by the outdoor rating only.

    Certainly if your leaning on the Lennox,....


    From Lennox

    What Is A "Properly Matched" System?

    Air conditioners and heat pumps must be installed with an indoor coil which provides proper system performance. For standard or extended manufacturer parts warranties, your Lennox products must be part of a properly matched system, and installed per the guidelines in the manufacturer's instructions. Go to our Lennox warranty page for more assistance.

    You may be able to register your system to get the full manufacturers warranty, but thinking if you have a coil leak down the road ( under the warranty period ) and Lennox ask for information, such as furnace model and outdoor unit, and they say it’s not a AHRI match because you don’t have a Lennox furnace, will they deny coverage, IDK. Course your Lennox Contractor probably will say no problem, but is that a true statement from them, they just want to sell you the equipment. Thinking I would bypass the company and ask Lennox consumer division/warranty division or research in depth yourself that question before you pull the trigger?

    I know Trane states that on their warranty page.

    Under Eligibility Requirements

    https://www.trane.com/pdf/GW-658-2032.pdf
    Last edited by Bazooka Joe; 05-04-2021 at 10:52 PM.

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  8. #7
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    An update on my AC: I took your advice Bazooka Joe and reached out to another Bryant dealer. They said they found a matching coil and compressor to go with my existing Bryant furnace. And they were actually $300 less than the Lennex dealer and I should be able to get my tax credit and Consumers rebate on top of that.

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  9. #8
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    Did they provide the AHRI number so you can check to make sure what they bid is what your going to get? The number should show the SEER and EER. Some states require both a minimum SEER and EER, some seem to say a minimum SEER for rebates. What is the minimum SEER and if they need the EER, what is the minimum EER in your state? You should be checking all this yourself also to cover your bases and not rely 100% on the Contractor. Your local utility company should have a site.

    Here’s the web-site to check, you can view and print the certificate. Hit anything in blue to bring you to the next page to view certificate. I would double check before signing anything.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...znxCFNAi8fJHHj

    For possible rebates https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...iQc0GVu13UMfK_

  10. #9
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    Bazooka, thanks again. I asked, in writing, the contractor for the model #'s of the condenser and coil and AHRI# for the system (16 SEER, 13EER). He provided me with the info and I checked the AHRI# and model #'s on AHRI website to verify that they are matching with my existing furnace. The furnace, with ECM, coil, and condenser allows for a $500 tax credit. Consumers Energy, my utility provider, allows for a $200 rebate (16 SEER, 13EER) and $100 for my new wifi programable thermostat. Now if I get the equipment installed properly I should be in good shape.

    Is there some testing of the system that I should require or ask about after completion?

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  11. #10
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    OK,..your not saying what equipment your getting the 16 SEER and 13 EER, are you referring to the Lennox from post #1 or did you go to a Bryant dealer and matched to your Bryant Furnace?

    As it stands the Lennox is not a match to your Bryant. Show the AHRI number that was given and state if it’s for the Lennox or a Bryant equipment.

    The Lennox model numbers you gave show it needs to be Lennox furnaces ( shows 34 matches ) the furnace starts with ML or SL or EL

    You should ask for a start up/commissioning report things like static pressures, final field refrigerant charge, amprege draws of motors and compressor, temperature rise across HX, CFM set, etc.etc. are within manufacturers specifications.

    You may want to ask for that during bidding as the Contractor may/may not need to adjust the price to take those checks/adjustments into consideration. It takes a little while to do all those checks and time is money. Yes the install is the key, following the install guide(s) as closely as possible and having correctly sized ducts and set up is key. Unfortunately some Contractors do a better job with all that then others. After all your system comes in pieces and needs to be put together at your residence, and started and fine tuned to manufacturers specifications.

    I filled out a lot of rebates form over the years for customers, my state makes you ( Contractor ) jump through hoops to get them. Everything needs to be exact. They even reserve the right to visit the job site before paying the rebates. Don’t think that ever happened in my case or how frequently they did that as it’s not like they ( the state or local utility company ) has endless supply of manpower.

  12. #11
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    I did end up going with the Bryant dealer. The equipment specified is what is shown for AHRI # 203895128.
    I looked up the contractors that are listed on Consumers Energy site (for the rebate) and the dealer I'm using is listed as doing quite a few installs and rebates under their program for their customers. I'll ask the dealer about the testing you referred to. Thanks again.

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  13. #12
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    How does rebates work in your state, as even thou it’s a AHRI match, and meets your threshold do they still give you the funds as the furnace is existing? and not bought all new as a package?

    Your Contractor should know the answer. Thinking your OK thou? as if furnace was new you would get a rebate and tax credit for that also.

    Your furnace shows it’s a 100K input if it’s a 80K input there is another AHRI match number.

    “The furnace, with ECM, coil, and condenser allows for a $xxx tax credit” from post #9

    From your other post, didn’t know they give Tax Credits for used existing furnace? Thinking you will get the Tax Credit for the A/C only, and whatever rebate your state has for the A/C side.

    When the form is filled out, is your Contractor going to add the furnace in as new? as doesn’t your state require a invoice that he needs to supply that shows it was bought at a distributor ( on a receipt with the distributor letterhead ) to show everything lines up with model numbers?
    Last edited by Bazooka Joe; 05-13-2021 at 08:31 AM.

  14. #13
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    The Consumers rebate is for AC equipment (so long as it's part of an AHRI matching furnace).
    The existing furnace is 100k input.
    Back in 2017 the previous contractor submitted for me a rebate for the furnace only.
    My CPA is researching the tax credit for the furnace that was installed in 2017. It's not obvious that you can't claim it for the furnace because the credit was available in 2017 and extended by congress in 2018 to 2021.
    I can for sure claim the $300 for year 2021. If my CPA says no to the $50 and $150, since the furnace was put in place in 2017, then I won't apply for the full $500. My bad for not applying for the furnace and ECM credit in 2017
    I would not ask the dealer to say something was newly installed when it wasn't.

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