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Thread: Panasonic NAIS software

  1. #1
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    Panasonic NAIS software

    I am tasked with fixing a PLC. it is a Panasonic FP0-C16T, with a display. Basically it is misbehaving, nobody knows why, and I need to get into his programming to sort it out.
    1) I need software and an adapter. Anybody know about these things?
    http://www.neutronusa.com/prod.cfm/4344448/glb
    Looks like the software.
    Prolly need one of these or similar:
    https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

    I am going to do my research, but there is no familiarity on my part. I need the hands on knowledge, like - do I need to match the software rev of the device? (Installed around 2009ish). Any gotchas?
    The customer is over a barrel and wants me to just get it done...
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    I am tasked with fixing a PLC. it is a Panasonic FP0-C16T, with a display. Basically it is misbehaving, nobody knows why, and I need to get into his programming to sort it out.
    1) I need software and an adapter. Anybody know about these things?
    http://www.neutronusa.com/prod.cfm/4344448/glb
    Looks like the software.
    Prolly need one of these or similar:
    https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

    I am going to do my research, but there is no familiarity on my part. I need the hands on knowledge, like - do I need to match the software rev of the device? (Installed around 2009ish). Any gotchas?
    The customer is over a barrel and wants me to just get it done...

    Or just give them a quote to rip it all out.
    Controls, the cause of... and solution to... all your HVAC problems.

  3. #3
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    Thread Starter
    It runs a deionized water system in an industrial manufacturing facility. In case it helps.
    I appreciate the post.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  4. #4
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    Second replace or pass.

    Not a whole lot happening on a typical DI system though they prob ain't going tolerate pissing around to figure it out how it should work.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  5. #5
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    I'd have a dozen or so years Industrial PLC experience. It would cost $2000 to replace that with something way better. That PLC is garbage.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
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    Is it hard to get into? I see the software has a free version that is limited to 10,000 steps. I should be able to manage with that. There are only 16 points of IO....
    All I need is the cable.... I tried to find an old PS2 mouse, as that is the plug I need but alas the last of the local stores that carries that sort of thing went belly up because of COVID a few months back.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  7. #7
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    Do yourself and the customer a favor and replace with something you can deal with going forward. If it’s DI water then it’s probably an operation that can absorb the cost. It is obviously a production system. They’ll get over the price.

  8. #8
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    PLC could be ok and it could be a sensor issue causing the problem.
    Unless they have a pile of those in operation, I would replace it with something new that you can support.
    Looks like a fairly simple application to replace if the customer has a sequence of operation.

  9. #9
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    No prints. No sequence... at least not a written one. A lot of 'it shouldn't do that'...
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  10. #10
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    I spent the first hour sorting out the customer's wiring and showing him that the switch labeled 'power' makes the tank fill with water when switched.... hmmm..... he was sufficiently impressed apparently.
    So turns out Panasonic has friendly tech support, nationally and with the local distributor. I got a cable on order and software downloaded. I should be back there later this week if the cable arrives on time.
    I was telling the on-site guy 'I may need to buy software... I am seeing it may cost more than $1k. Are you ok absorbing that into the cost of the service?' 'Anything, the sooner the better'.....
    So there is a free version that is limited as to the size of program it will write. It will only go to 10,000 steps. With 16 points of IO it seems hard to beat that. So it looks like I do not need to buy that software, so the cable with fast shipping should be no problem to roll into the service.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  11. #11
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    It turned out fine. Made the customer happy, got it working reliably.
    Learned ladder logic, and FPWINPro 7 software. He now has a home on the VM with AAON software I learned earlier in the week.
    It was the usual horror when doing something completely unfamiliar - living by the seat of your pants and hoping I will have something to show for the effort. But it turned out well. I have spent enough time in that state that it is no less terrifying, but it is quite familiar.
    Basically a typical Thursday.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  12. #12
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    Nice when you find a company with helpful tech support. Had a similar experience with DPS Telcom support last month when working at a site in Memphis and customer was complaining alarms from generators and ATS's no longer worked. Turns out customer ripped out a legacy network switch back in October that the Net Guardian device was connected to. I figure this out the night before the testing which included seeing gen/ATS status. Called DPS at 7PM central time and DPS Tech found me a copy of the old windows XP setup program which I needed to change the IP of the Net Guardian.

    Curious what did you find wrong with the controls?

  13. #13
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    First they had a switch marked POWER that, when switched, closed the contacts for the water level float and made the system call for more water fill.... not helpful. I asked what was the possibility that wires had been moved, and the answer was 'Impossible'..... OK, limited help available onsite...
    Second, in the ladder logic there was a convoluted series of Set coils (as opposed to normal coils) that ran through relays that basically mucked up whether the tank would fill when the float floated, and whether it would stop filling when the float was satisfied. I bypassed all of that and went straight to the source. Float gets low, fills the tank - easy. Ran it through its paces and the customer was happy. Then I double checked if other IO needed that bypassed logic.
    This was a perfect site to learn on, the customer needed it done desperately, the entire system was small, and I was slow on work. Win win win.
    Found out the next day I will be getting clobbered on several projects around the country for the next 9+ mos. Hope it does not suck....
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    Second, in the ladder logic there was a convoluted series of Set coils (as opposed to normal coils) that ran through relays that basically mucked up whether the tank would fill when the float floated, and whether it would stop filling when the float was satisfied. I bypassed all of that and went straight to the source. Float gets low, fills the tank - easy. Ran it through its paces and the customer was happy. Then I double checked if other IO needed that bypassed logic.
    My only ladder logic experience was on the JCI DX 9100 and actually used the set/reset for applications like yours that started and stopped an output on a different conditions. Done correctly it's pretty simple with a couple of ladder lines:

    Low Level On and Fill Valve off, Set Valve On

    High Level On and Fill Valve on, Reset Valve Off

    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    Found out the next day I will be getting clobbered on several projects around the country for the next 9+ mos. Hope it does not suck....
    Depends were you go. We have Data Center projects all over the country and never slowed down in 2020. A year ago airlines still had full schedules but planes were empty. Summer had flights cut way back and airlines dropped fares. I flew Jetblue Boston to LAX for $19 and usually paid 50 - 100 to most destinations and middle seats were blocked. End of 2020 had full flights on most trips with middle seats still block. 2021 had full flights including middle seats, Delta was the last airline still blocking middle seats but that was April so I am sure the joined the club. Current issue is rental car available. I never realized a big part of the rental car business is selling the used cars while the cars have 15-30k miles. Well the fleets are being sold but new cars are slow to arrive. One of my guys paid almost $800 for 3 days in Memphis last month. TJ ended up driving customer that showed up for the commissioning and always take Uber but none were available several times. Hotels and food are available.

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