Sales Performance vs Hourly Pay

[heatingman]

You better fix it because it invalidates everything you say on here. If you can't be honest with your profile, how do we know you're being honest with us?



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Well it is on the internet, so...


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[heatingman]

You better fix it because it invalidates everything you say on here. If you can't be honest with your profile, how do we know you're being honest with us?



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There. I changed it.

Satisfied?


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[shellkamp]

There. I changed it.

Satisfied?


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For the moment, but give it some time.

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[beenthere]

You better fix it because it invalidates everything you say on here. If you can't be honest with your profile, how do we know you're being honest with us?



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So any help he gave in the last 17 years. Isn't valid now.

[shellkamp]

So any help he gave in the last 17 years. Isn't valid now.

I mean... how can it be? His reputation was clearly built on a pillar of sand.

I vote to delete all his posts prior to him correcting his role in the industry. It's the only way the man can regain any sort of integrity.

If you haven't figured out I'm being facetious yet....

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[beenthere]

I mean... how can it be? His reputation was clearly built on a pillar of sand.

I vote to delete all his posts prior to him correcting his role in the industry. It's the only way the man can regain any sort of integrity.

If you haven't figured out I'm being facetious yet....

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OOOPs. Too late. I already deleted all of his post made before today.

[pageyjim]

As a tech, when we didn't have GPS tracking and had paper time sheets, I'd dock my own pay if I went out on my own callback after hours (I couldn't do it during normal business hours because the dispatcher would have noticed and probably just corrected a gap in my hours). I never asked permission to do it and so far as I know I never got caught doing it, either.

Even back then I knew it was a violation of labor laws, which is why I did my best to be sneaky about it.


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Curious as to how you achieved this. How did you know there was a callback? If there was a callback why wasn't there already a tech there? Did you leave an invoice? How did the office know not to send out another tech knowing there was a callback? Why did you feel the need to do this, did you have so many callbacks that were a problem?
It would have been easy for me to catch and any decent employer I had would have caught this too.

[BBeerme]

Being old school, this is how I was brought up in the trade. My boss' position was "I already paid you once to do the job, do I need to pay you to do it a second time?"

For what it is worth, I am a much better tech because of it. And, it made me a better tech in a MUCH shorter period of time.

Labor laws, yeah, I knew it was illegal. But after you work for free a few times, you learn to get it right the first time.

There was even a small handful of times when I'd go talk with the business owner and say "Well, I finally figured out what's wrong. Sorry it took so long. If I had seen this problem before, I'd be done by now, so I'm stopping the clock right now. You won't be paying any more for however long it takes me to finish."

I'd typically get a stunned look. But the loyalty you get for years [decades] down the road is/was invaluable.

To do that in this day and age would be almost impossible.

First; heatingman is not an owner.

And secondly, my personal opinion is that (the idea of it) would be honorable for the employee to offer it, but dishonorable for the employer to demand or encourage it.

Labor laws and other factors (such as the skill level of the tech as compared to the reasonability of the mistake being circumvented as a result) muddy the waters regarding the subject.

In the end, if an employee thinks it would be wrong to charge the customer to rectify a mistake the company made, don't you think they should at least feel badly about the fact that as an employee, they are doing exactly that to their customer (the boss) when they are being paid to run their own callback?





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[BBeerme]

Probably because that is the closest option to choose. I don't remember an option "work for a contractor".

Even though I am an employee of a contractor, when I show up to a job site, I am the contractor.

First off why do you list yourself as an hvacr contractor then?

[pageyjim]

Probably because that is the closest option to choose. I don't remember an option "work for a contractor".

Even though I am an employee of a contractor, when I show up to a job site, I am the contractor.

Except that's not the case

[BALloyd]

Curious as to how you achieved this. How did you know there was a callback? If there was a callback why wasn't there already a tech there? Did you leave an invoice? How did the office know not to send out another tech knowing there was a callback? Why did you feel the need to do this, did you have so many callbacks that were a problem?
It would have been easy for me to catch and any decent employer I had would have caught this too.

Please.....you have never been a tech and had a customer call you directly?

I talk to customers directly all the time. It is the ones that are unreasonable pains in the butt that I make call the office for everything.

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[BBeerme]

What am I listed as? Can't remember what I chose, but I do remember I chose the closest option. Options may have also changed since I initially signed on here.

Except that's not the case

[shellkamp]

Curious as to how you achieved this. How did you know there was a callback? If there was a callback why wasn't there already a tech there? Did you leave an invoice? How did the office know not to send out another tech knowing there was a callback? Why did you feel the need to do this, did you have so many callbacks that were a problem?
It would have been easy for me to catch and any decent employer I had would have caught this too.

Considering at the time I was the only technician it was pretty much guaranteed to be my own callback.

If they tried harder or cared more I'm sure they could have found me out, but we had paper invoices, paper time sheets and no way to track service vehicles. Also, as I stated earlier there would be no way for me to be sneaky about it if the callback didn't happen after hours or basically at the end of the day when the office was closed and I couldn't "check-in" to say I was done with the current call and on to the next.

But I've had situations where I went out on an after hours call on Friday or Saturday, invoiced the customer, then get a call on my cell from them saying the unit wasn't working (call goes through the answering service when they call the office number, but then the technician calls the customer back on their work-cell phone to explain charges and schedule), and so the second visit, as long as it wasn't requiring more parts or major repair, would get no invoice filled out and no time claimed on my time sheet.

If they called the answering service instead of my cell phone, then it's a little more explaining to do and I might have written an invoice for our records but not claimed all the time it took me.


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[BALloyd]

Except that's not the case

Do you just like to knit pick and argue about everything?

I asked you to explain in detail about how you would answer the OP's question and you gave a vague reply even though in a previous post you claimed to have had solved the exact same problem in your own career.

So again please tell us, in detail, how to answer the OP's question.

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[pageyjim]

Please.....you have never been a tech and had a customer call you directly?

I talk to customers directly all the time. It is the ones that are unreasonable pains in the butt that I make call the office for everything.

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No, it has been a policy of every company not to allow this and was when I was in a position to enact it also. Also that doesn't answer all the questions.

[pageyjim]

Do you just like to knit pick and argue about everything?

I asked you to explain in detail about how you would answer the OP's question and you gave a vague reply even though in a previous post you had solved the exact problem.

So again please tell us, in detail, how to answer the OP's question.

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You should be addressing that to BBeerme. He is the one arguing something that is so clearly wrong.

I responded to your other concern. In fact it basically mirrors your post on the matter.

[BBeerme]

Yes. Yes he does. He does it all the time.

Do you just like to knit pick and argue about everything?

I asked you to explain in detail about how you would answer the OP's question and you gave a vague reply even though in a previous post you claimed to have had solved the exact same problem in your own career.

So again please tell us, in detail, how to answer the OP's question.

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[pageyjim]

Considering at the time I was the only technician it was pretty much guaranteed to be my own callback.

If they tried harder or cared more I'm sure they could have found me out, but we had paper invoices, paper time sheets and no way to track service vehicles. Also, as I stated earlier there would be no way for me to be sneaky about it if the callback didn't happen after hours or basically at the end of the day when the office was closed and I couldn't "check-in" to say I was done with the current call and on to the next.

But I've had situations where I went out on an after hours call on Friday or Saturday, invoiced the customer, then get a call on my cell from them saying the unit wasn't working (call goes through the answering service when they call the office number, but then the technician calls the customer back on their work-cell phone to explain charges and schedule), and so the second visit, as long as it wasn't requiring more parts or major repair, would get no invoice filled out and no time claimed on my time sheet.

If they called the answering service instead of my cell phone, then it's a little more explaining to do and I might have written an invoice for our records but not claimed all the time it took me.


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Just curious because as a customer I would insist on an invoice and paper invoices can be traced and accounted for. For example all voided invoices had to be turned in just for this very reason. And as I said I never had and would not accept calls directly. Thanks for the reply

[shellkamp]

Just curious because as a customer I would insist on an invoice and paper invoices can be traced and accounted for. For example all voided invoices had to be turned in just for this very reason. And as I said I never had and would not accept calls directly. Thanks for the reply

I don't disagree and as I stated earlier I say the same to the technicians in my charge.

I took advantage of a weakness I saw in the administrative processes to achieve what I did. I don't encourage the behavior from others but it felt right to me at the time and to be honest I'd try to do the same thing today if possible. But my employer never asked or expected me to do that, either. It was all my decision and I certainly didn't broadcast it to them, since not only would it implicate them but it would also appear to be "desperate" in a way.

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[pageyjim]

Do you just like to knit pick and argue about everything?

I asked you to explain in detail about how you would answer the OP's question and you gave a vague reply even though in a previous post you claimed to have had solved the exact same problem in your own career.

So again please tell us, in detail, how to answer the OP's question.

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As I said it was addressed many times already in fact it was by you and my post was pretty close to yours on this subject.

Here is your response: "Sorry but you are over simplifying a complex issue and expecting an easy answer.

There is no magic ratio. Are you doing service work? Are you doing installs? Are you quoting jobs and doing sales? How much GM do you make on labour? What benefits does the company pay for employees. What government taxes does the employer pay for each employees. Is your GM for jobs different for installs and service? What part or the world are you working in? What is your overhead? Does your overhead differ for service and installs? Etc, etc , etc."

Here is my response to your inquiry: "They have been answered already as best as they could. It is more complicated than what he is trying to make it. The arguments I made fit my company and my position

Do you want me to give details on my experiences that don't exactly fit the OP's question. Again we all know what his aim is although he is trying to make it too narrow of a subject without enough information.