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Thread: "Ikeler" home. Flat, foam roof with cassettes. MXZ

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatingman View Post
    Mueller has a black coated armaflex out now that is very similar in toughness on the exterior to the white insulation.

    I happen to have a sample:




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    Oh I know, but I haven't had any issues personally. Why should I change?
    "Life, Liberty, and Levin!"

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatingman View Post
    On second viewing perhaps the zig zag white tubing was existing, water lines?


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    It is white insulation inside the metal and wrapped in the Hardcast lineset tape. The zigzag pipe that looks horrible is the hot water line. Notice it drops down the vent stack for the kitchen sink next to the 4x12 lineset cover.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlerberts-Protege View Post
    I am still in contact with most of these customers. No issues.

    I will take my chances. If there are issues 5 years from now then they will pay me or someone else to fix. Is what it is, they are very popular, and the black stuff sucks, the Mueller stuff included.
    Know what else is popular? window and through the wall ac units ! Lol

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by slctech View Post
    I am not sure this is really a shameful thing. I kind of like it when folks think outside of the box..literally on this one. You can't be conventional on everything especially when the home is not conventional by ANY means. If a customer is willing to pay and is fully aware in writing of the scope, complexity, and deisred intent of the job, then I will do anything a customer damn well wants.

    I will say great job.
    Thanks I appreciate the the pat on the back. But I know this won't cool or heat the home properly and is one of those jobs where if I were to come into later on I would look at it and say WTF did they do and why?

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  6. #25
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    SO white linesets...

    ISO-Pure
    ISO-Polar

    Muellers are good but stopped making 164' white linesets beginning of this year. they are 100' and black now. I called and spoke with a rep to confirm.

    Johnstone set me those ISO-sh*ts about 2 months ago. I sent them back....

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoramax View Post
    I would love to say I found this. I fought tooth and nail not to do this. But this is a MXZ5c42 with a 12k and 9k wall mount. A 12k one way cassette. A 9k and 12k 4 way cassette. Line length was 210ft furthest being 70ft.
    We had to remove 2 swamp coolers and enlarge the holes. This style of home has romex running across the top of the 2x6 t&g boards. So cutting is fun. The boxes for the 4 ways are 36x48 and the 1way is 28x72. Headed back tomorrow to finish the final details(a few straps, paint pvc, walk through ect ect).
    I cant begin on how much I didn't want to do this. The 12k wall mount points down the hall at the 12k 4way while doing nothing to condition the frontroom/living room that its supposed to serve. The 9k is in a sun room thats probably 80% glass on the walls with 3 skylights and the room measures roughly 200-350²ft. The 12k 4 way is tucked into a quasi corner of the dining room with only 2½ of the vanes actually able to do something. The 9k 4way is in the hall way just past the laundry area and centered between two bedrooms just outside the bathroom. The master is a 12k 1way that positionally I can't complain for what it is.
    This is a 2500²ft home with zero insulation on the walls and 40%ish glass for walls. 4 bedroom 2 bath. It's just blah.

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    This job is totally f*cked

    All you had to do was show me the MXZ-5C42 and I could tell you its screwed. This particular outdoor unit I will not sell. When I first started with mitsu I installed about 15 of them. I have since went back and replaced the primary zone with a single zone because they are piss poor performers. After about the 10th one Mitsu sent a rep out and found a unit that was matched 42k to 42k not working because the discharge superheat put the unit in a limp mode. After that mitsu offered to give me single zone replacements for free on all these units. I believe I have now replaced the main zone on about 11 of them and I believe the rest of them has likely had the houses sold to new owners. That outdoor unit is a very bad one.

    And I will add that you have 54kbtu hooked up to a 42kbtu outdoor unit. Which is allowable at 130% capacity but amplifies the scenario I just spoke on.

    Im not sure why there is a branch box.

    Your sqft is likely to much, with that style of home, here in California, for that kind of install.....The unit you selected has issues, and the locations of heads units greatly amplify the situation since they wont be operating at full potential.

    SO the units themselves I cant really comment on without pics of room and location of units. But I'm gonna give you a very simple understanding for installing these systems. The compressor has about 750-900 speeds. Its primary job is to run as efficiently as it can will doing what the customer is asking it to do. If it can Heat/Cool a space running at its very minimum speed that's what it will do. Putting a unit in a hallway or location where there is not much throw will cause the air to cycle back into the zone and it will simply slow down. You can put a 2 ton head in a 12'x12' room pointed at the doorway and virtually nothing will get out the doorway. These units are ROOM zones.

    Yeah, not much about this install is good. And not speaking on Aesthetics. Sometimes we work with what we got. Im talking about Functionality.

    IMO. When you get called back out. The first try at a solution would be to put everything on stats so the zones dont run at reduced capacities. Or at least the zones that they complain about. If you find that the primary zone is the complaint, or the one they say performs the worst you'll have to replace it with an additional outdoor unit. If they complain about multiple zones after the stat attempts I would put in a 4 ton outdoor and use that branch-box that's already up there.

    Maybe they will just sell it and you'll never see it again...

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacob-k View Post
    This job is totally f*cked

    All you had to do was show me the MXZ-5C42 and I could tell you its screwed. This particular outdoor unit I will not sell. When I first started with mitsu I installed about 15 of them. I have since went back and replaced the primary zone with a single zone because they are piss poor performers. After about the 10th one Mitsu sent a rep out and found a unit that was matched 42k to 42k not working because the discharge superheat put the unit in a limp mode. After that mitsu offered to give me single zone replacements for free on all these units. I believe I have now replaced the main zone on about 11 of them and I believe the rest of them has likely had the houses sold to new owners. That outdoor unit is a very bad one.

    And I will add that you have 54kbtu hooked up to a 42kbtu outdoor unit. Which is allowable at 130% capacity but amplifies the scenario I just spoke on.

    Im not sure why there is a branch box.

    Your sqft is likely to much, with that style of home, here in California, for that kind of install.....The unit you selected has issues, and the locations of heads units greatly amplify the situation since they wont be operating at full potential.

    SO the units themselves I cant really comment on without pics of room and location of units. But I'm gonna give you a very simple understanding for installing these systems. The compressor has about 750-900 speeds. Its primary job is to run as efficiently as it can will doing what the customer is asking it to do. If it can Heat/Cool a space running at its very minimum speed that's what it will do. Putting a unit in a hallway or location where there is not much throw will cause the air to cycle back into the zone and it will simply slow down. You can put a 2 ton head in a 12'x12' room pointed at the doorway and virtually nothing will get out the doorway. These units are ROOM zones.

    Yeah, not much about this install is good. And not speaking on Aesthetics. Sometimes we work with what we got. Im talking about Functionality.

    IMO. When you get called back out. The first try at a solution would be to put everything on stats so the zones dont run at reduced capacities. Or at least the zones that they complain about. If you find that the primary zone is the complaint, or the one they say performs the worst you'll have to replace it with an additional outdoor unit. If they complain about multiple zones after the stat attempts I would put in a 4 ton outdoor and use that branch-box that's already up there.

    Maybe they will just sell it and you'll never see it again...
    I knew it was WOS material. For several reasons. I did not know the 5c42 had issues. I dont want to seem like I'm being rude because I'm not at all and I value your input 100%. There was no branch box here. 5 heads were piped to the CU. Had i sold it, it would have been two 4c36's with 7 heads. ALL WALL MOUNTS!
    Either way I am embarrassed to have my name associated with the install. I did not want to do it and I contemplated taking a week off no pay just to show how much I didn't want this job.

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  9. #28
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    My bad I see its a cassette...

    Yeah this is where the guy that sells it needs to go back and see how it works. And he's the one that should be paying out of his pocket to fix it. Do that a few times and you learn real quick.

    DOne plenty of crap jobs when working for companies...Actually I just left a pizza joint where I installed a package unit on the roof. Was a flat roof and existing unit had a curb. crane comes and pulls the unit, the new is coming down and sh*t is about 8" smaller all the way around. New unit will literally fit inside the old curb...Boss says do anything just get it in there. I go grab some Steel L bracket lengths of like 8'. Put those across curb and set pkg on that. Then took sheetmetal and made some flashing by hand to cover 8" gap. two buckets of mastic and boss said that'll work!...I didn't mention it was a 5 ton with 14" return....It was 7 years ago and the damn thing was running when I left an hour ago...

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  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoramax View Post
    I knew it was WOS material. For several reasons. I did not know the 5c42 had issues. I dont want to seem like I'm being rude because I'm not at all and I value your input 100%. There was no branch box here. 5 heads were piped to the CU. Had i sold it, it would have been two 4c36's with 7 heads. ALL WALL MOUNTS!
    Either way I am embarrassed to have my name associated with the install. I did not want to do it and I contemplated taking a week off no pay just to show how much I didn't want this job.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    When I’m assigned to this type of install I always will send an email out to the sales team to explain all of the reasons it’s a bad idea or won’t work, that way 6 months later when it’s FUBAR with an angry customer I don’t have to hear, “if you knew it wasn’t going to work why did you still install it?!”


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  12. #30
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    I voiced myself. I was clear and brunt. Once it was done I got the we won't do it anymore speech. Until the next one... I was clear on the one they did prior that looked thunder f**ked.

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  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoramax View Post
    I voiced myself. I was clear and brunt. Once it was done I got the we won't do it anymore speech. Until the next one... I was clear on the one they did prior that looked thunder f**ked.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    That's all you can do with those. And yes...there is always another.
    Who’s to blame?... if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. V for Vendetta

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  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zamoramax View Post
    I voiced myself. I was clear and brunt. Once it was done I got the we won't do it anymore speech. Until the next one... I was clear on the one they did prior that looked thunder f**ked.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Theres a company here where the owner doesn't know how to say no.

    Love sending them the jobs were the house was built around the HVAC....

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  18. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacob-k View Post
    Theres a company here where the owner doesn't know how to say no.

    Love sending them the jobs were the house was built around the HVAC....
    I didn't know we took jobs that far out. Lol.

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  20. #34
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    Such a block of text in the OP, I scrolled through the photos first. My first thought was Oh My Friggin' Gawd, sure glad I didn't get that job!

    But I will say, nicely done!! Now let me read on and see what others say.

    On a complete tangent, which of course has nothing to do with you, I've had a couple of [commercial] customers say what a bad idea it was to put foam on their roofs. It's like as soon as the warranty wears out, so does the roof. And they need a lot of maintenance. And apparently, once you put foam on, you are sort of locked into that for life. I never asked, but I'm guessing it cost more to remove the foam than it did to initially put on.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  21. #35
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    Looks like Jacob didn't like the install, oh well, he is the king of mini-splits around here!

    I've only installed one mini-split in my whole life, it was a Mitsubishi right after Mitsubishi was available in our area. But I'm not an installer, haven't installed any sort of a unit in probably over 10 years.

    As far as I'm concerned, this is as good as I could have done, especially under the circumstances!!


    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Such a block of text in the OP, I scrolled through the photos first. My first thought was Oh My Friggin' Gawd, sure glad I didn't get that job!

    But I will say, nicely done!! Now let me read on and see what others say.

    On a complete tangent, which of course has nothing to do with you, I've had a couple of [commercial] customers say what a bad idea it was to put foam on their roofs. It's like as soon as the warranty wears out, so does the roof. And they need a lot of maintenance. And apparently, once you put foam on, you are sort of locked into that for life. I never asked, but I'm guessing it cost more to remove the foam than it did to initially put on.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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  23. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Looks like Jacob didn't like the install, oh well, he is the king of mini-splits around here!

    I've only installed one mini-split in my whole life, it was a Mitsubishi right after Mitsubishi was available in our area. But I'm not an installer, haven't installed any sort of a unit in probably over 10 years.

    As far as I'm concerned, this is as good as I could have done, especially under the circumstances!!
    I have no opinion on it.

    Facts are facts.

    One doesn't learn these issues unless they have done them themselves. I've licked my wounds plenty of times.

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  25. #37
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    I did say you are the King of Mini-splits around here, facts are facts!


    Quote Originally Posted by jacob-k View Post
    I have no opinion on it.

    Facts are facts.

    One doesn't learn these issues unless they have done them themselves. I've licked my wounds plenty of times.

    Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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