Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 57 of 57

Thread: How do you think manufacturers are going to handle the lack of techs coming in

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    29,601
    Post Likes
    This is already the MO with service companies. Repairs are made to be very expensive and . . . can only be paid COD. Whereas replacements are easily financed and can be made 'no money down'.

    Lots of customers either can't or have a hard time reaching into their pocket to pay a $1000. repair bill. But 'signing the line' doesn't have the same real or mental restrictions. <g>

    And the absolute Flood of low-mileage used AC equipment available is positive proof of it. 25 years ago the idea of "used equipment" was almost absurd - who would remove good equipment? <g>

    I even have a funny story from about a year or so ago. I was buying a trailer tire from a guy - I wanted to have a spare. An AC company was there changing out the system when I got there. The old equipment looked almost-new to me. It was a 18K Carrier 16 SEER about 5-6 years old tops - but it's not my business; I didn't want to throw them under the bus. The owner and I got to talking and I very conversationally asked about some other things he had laying around; a frame hitch for example. He said:

    "Oh you can have that - I guess you collect scrap?"

    "Yeah; have to make ends meet some How . . . "

    So then he found some lengths of pipe, a rolled up metal pool surround, and so forth - and helped me carry them out to the truck. Afterwards we were standing there talking about his house and I asked what he intended to so with his old AC system.

    What old system?

    (pointing to the removed condensing unit) That stuff right there - that's your property, right?

    Oh sure - why? They told me it's junk - couldn't be fixed - hey; do you want that for scrap too?

    Well; I've got you right here to help me move it, and the truck's not full - may as well haul All your trash away for you. <g>

    So I make some room in the truck for a few minutes and then get a hand truck. But before I even get the condensing unit tipped back one of the installers yells:

    What the hell do you think You're doin!!!

    Moving this unit.

    To where?

    Into my truck.

    Oh no you're not! That's ours!

    How did it get to be Yours? Is this Your house?

    So about that time the owner comes out of the house, takes in the situation, and says:

    Sorry; I was on the phone; I'll help you with that.

    The installers object again - saying again, now to both of us, that it's Their equipment. I point out to them that it wasn't theirs last week and it's not theirs now. It belongs to This man here - (I am gesturing towards the owner) - I'm pretty sure anyway. <g>

    The owner says it's His and he's giving it to this guy (me) for scrap. "He collects scrap."

    Installers say: Scrap? That ain't for scrap!

    So I grin and pause before pointedly asking: It's not junk? Then why did you replace it?

    The installers then reverted to some mumble-F answers and quickly remembered something they had to go do. That system is still cooling my friend's condo. All I added was a drier and some refrigerant. <g>

    PHM
    ----------


    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Planned obsolescence. Put a 10 year warranty on it and make the parts so expensive it is most cost effective to replace than repair once the warranty is gone. Then build it just heavy enough to make warranty.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of Thinking

  2. Likes R600a, Nuclrchiller, tmst liked this post.
  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma home its in the name
    Posts
    6,275
    Post Likes
    It is with much sadness that I announce the passing of this faithful old general electric air conditioner. ? - 5/5/2021 He is survived by four broke tenants who will celebrate his replacement once they see the power bill.
    I'm off to the store to buy a rose for its grave.
    I don't know how old this is but I know it's pretty darn old for as good of shape as it's in. Unfortunately a new contactor and capacitor with a hard start was enough to get the compressor to run but not enough to get it to pump.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beatrice, NE
    Posts
    13,910
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by R600a View Post
    It is with much sadness that I announce the passing of this faithful old general electric air conditioner. ? - 5/5/2021 He is survived by four broke tenants who will celebrate his replacement once they see the power bill.
    I'm off to the store to buy a rose for its grave.
    I don't know how old this is but I know it's pretty darn old for as good of shape as it's in. Unfortunately a new contactor and capacitor with a hard start was enough to get the compressor to run but not enough to get it to pump.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
    Early 80's or before. Trane bought out GE late 70's and sold the remaining inventory for a while, then the same equipment came out rebadged with Trane on it.

  5. Likes R600a liked this post.
  6. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma home its in the name
    Posts
    6,275
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Early 80's or before. Trane bought out GE late 70's and sold the remaining inventory for a while, then the same equipment came out rebadged with Trane on it.
    Yeah my boss was thinking 60s. He loves these units and so do I.
    I'm not honestly sure how to determine the tonnage.
    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

  7. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northern NV
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Likes
    Starting to see some Air/water outdoor heat pumps. Require no refrigeration experience, just a bit of hydronic plumbing to the indoor AH. If trained techs get scarce, I could see these being the go-to and if unit breaks down, you swap out for a replacement and send the failed one back to factory or repair center for a refurb to be sent out to the next victim. Possibly even leased.... Hmm, wonder if there is a business model here?
    “A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein

  8. Likes R600a liked this post.
  9. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beatrice, NE
    Posts
    13,910
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by R600a View Post
    Yeah my boss was thinking 60s. He loves these units and so do I.
    I'm not honestly sure how to determine the tonnage.
    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
    That my friend is a 2.5 ton BTB730. The 7 is for aeroquip fittings. They had a manufacture date on them seem like in that corner of the data plate that is rotted off.

  10. Likes R600a liked this post.
  11. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma home its in the name
    Posts
    6,275
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Madera View Post
    Starting to see some Air/water outdoor heat pumps. Require no refrigeration experience, just a bit of hydronic plumbing to the indoor AH. If trained techs get scarce, I could see these being the go-to and if unit breaks down, you swap out for a replacement and send the failed one back to factory or repair center for a refurb to be sent out to the next victim. Possibly even leased.... Hmm, wonder if there is a business model here?
    I think one extra good thing about those is that they could easily be built to use hydrocarbon refrigerants.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

  12. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,416
    Post Likes
    The original Spine Fin tubing and Climatuff compressor, they used a different type of compressor contactor, was a plunger type contact points where on one side from what I recall

  13. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma home its in the name
    Posts
    6,275
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joe View Post
    The original Spine Fin tubing and Climatuff compressor, they used a different type of compressor contactor, was a plunger type from what I recall
    Yeah I replaced it with a standard two pole and completely rewired it before I discovered that the compressor was not pumping but I had to get it spinning before I could find out if it was pumping.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

  14. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,416
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by R600a View Post
    Yeah I replaced it with a standard two pole and completely rewired it before I discovered that the compressor was not pumping but I had to get it spinning before I could find out if it was pumping.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
    Not sure but I remember those outdoor motors seemed to spin faster than 1075, maybe it was the aggressive pitch they seem to have.

  15. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma home its in the name
    Posts
    6,275
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joe View Post
    Not sure but I remember those outdoor motors seemed to spin faster than 1075, maybe it was the aggressive pitch they seem to have.
    I'm not sure but this one was definitely a 1075 motor. I don't think it's particularly the right motor but it's whatever the last tech put in. Maybe the fan motor contributed to the demise of the poor snowball.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

  16. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,416
    Post Likes
    I worked more on the Heat Pump version, use to pull the outdoor fan motor wire off the relay to help ice up the coil sooner, waited a few minutes then slowly advanced the electro mechanical defrost timer using a screwdriver until it initiated a defrost, waited to let it terminate a defrost on its own. While in defrost rehooked the outdoor fan on the relay, and ran inside with a amp. probe where the Air Handler was to check that a portion of the electric heat came on lol. while doing a PM check. Also watched the dial on the defrost timer to make sure it was turning.

    Thankx for posting those photos,....brought back memories. Those compressors had a different sound to them than a recipercating compressor of other brands, like a high pitch sound. 5/16” OD liquid line was popular on the ones we serviced and installed.

    My previous house I installed a Trane cube Heat Pump in 1985, bought it from my boss who carried that line, thinking that was a few years after they bought GE line ( house has oil baseboard ) was in service or at least in place last time I drove by, which was last year. Thinking being in New England, you can get more years out of them as the cooling season is relatively short. Doubt they use it for heat or are even aware you can use it for heat, as the ownership changed hands a few times..

    As mentioned pre charged R22 AeroQuip fitting.
    Last edited by Bazooka Joe; 05-05-2021 at 03:34 PM.

  17. Likes R600a liked this post.
  18. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma home its in the name
    Posts
    6,275
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka Joe View Post
    I worked more on the Heat Pump version, use to pull the outdoor fan motor wire off the relay to help ice up the coil sooner, waited a few minutes then slowly advanced the electro mechanical defrost timer using a screwdriver until it initiated a defrost, waited to let it terminate a defrost on its own. While in defrost rehooked the outdoor fan on the relay, and ran inside with a amp. probe where the Air Handler was to check that a portion of the electric heat came on lol. while doing a PM check. Also watched the dial on the defrost timer to make sure it was turning.

    Thankx for posting those photos,....brought back memories. Those compressors had a different sound to them than a recipercating compressor of other brands, like a high pitch sound. 5/16” OD liquid line was popular on the ones we serviced and installed.

    My previous house I installed a Trane cube Heat Pump in 1985, bought it from my boss who carried that line, thinking that was a few years after they bought GE line ( house has oil baseboard ) was in service or at least in place last time I drove by, which was last year. Thinking being in New England, you can get more years out of them as the cooling season is relatively short. Doubt they use it for heat or are even aware you can use it for heat, as the ownership changed hands a few times..

    As mentioned pre charged R22 AeroQuip fitting.
    I have a feeling there aeroquips leaked at some point.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    508
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by ehsx View Post
    Just observations:

    Compare the current microprocessor units to prior electric mechanical. At least 80% of service diagnostics is now done for the tech. Current tech school grads are looking for journeyman pay without a grasp of service requirements and principals. Log sheets seem to be a thing of the past, gauge & controller printouts are incomplete and techs don't know how to analyze the listed readings. >80% of testco printouts I reviewed last year indicated system deficiencies that were not addressed, remainder did not have the additional information required to make a determination.

    Marketing drives product features and service voice has only a fraction of the impact on new product, yet has the greatest impact on future sales.

    Mfg will make more money with parts changers working on products and warranty expenses will drive product cost up.
    Spot on. I know plenty of Svc Jmen who struggle with 5TR Packages. And I know plenty more f others who believe that brushing tubes, greasing motors, and logging equipment merits top pay. If you caN’T troubleshoot a Centrifugal or Screw machine or tear them down, even tho the Agreements specifically state CAS/A equipment is Jman duties. Those guys are in for a shock once they go somewhere else. What happened to being the best of the best or doing it right the 1st time?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. Likes R600a liked this post.
  21. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,416
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by R600a View Post
    I have a feeling there aeroquips leaked at some point.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
    That system looks like it had some serious surgery over the years on the ole girl.. trouble was you could not pump those systems down or isolate them with Aero Quip, no service valves from what I remember..

  22. Likes R600a liked this post.
  23. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    156
    Post Likes
    The email message apparently misdirected me. I was trying to respond to a post about promising, non-vapor refrigeration technologies.
    Last edited by tmst; 05-06-2021 at 05:51 PM. Reason: misdirected

  24. Likes R600a liked this post.
  25. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    156
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    This is already the MO with service companies. Repairs are made to be very expensive and . . . can only be paid COD. Whereas replacements are easily financed and can be made 'no money down'.

    ...

    So I grin and pause before pointedly asking: It's not junk? Then why did you replace it?

    The installers then reverted to some mumble-F answers and quickly remembered something they had to go do. That system is still cooling my friend's condo. All I added was a drier and some refrigerant. <g>

    PHM
    ----------
    Cool story. Good for you. RIP ethics, honesty. Evil rules the world.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •