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Thread: What do you look for in hiring Tech skills first or Aptltude

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmst View Post
    Sheer aptitude is driving me at this point. Life, the pandemic, economic and health situations and even the crunchy attitudes of instructors are throwing out roadblocks but I'm doggedly pursuing my ACR studies regardless. The computer science program I completed never offered any real obstacles, partially due to the more civilized nature of the field, so it's certainly an adventure.

    You said... "and even the crunchy attitudes of instructors are throwing out roadblocks".

    What does this mean?

  2. #122
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    There could be any number of reasons, but I'll bet the underlying reason is they are not happy doing what they are doing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    You said... "and even the crunchy attitudes of instructors are throwing out roadblocks".

    What does this mean?
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  3. #123
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    I seem to be at a disadvantage and am not sure why my remark was selected for further inquiry. It was rather misinformed and largely the result of a different frustration. Please pardon me for not commenting further.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmst View Post
    I seem to be at a disadvantage and am not sure why my remark was selected for further inquiry. It was rather misinformed and largely the result of a different frustration. Please pardon me for not commenting further.
    I think you're misreading your audience here. A word of advice. This trade takes a thick skin. If you were offended by a comment that meant nothing, you will find the trade more difficult than it needs to be.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Why is it that those who complain the most contribute the least?
    MONEY CAN'T BUY HAPPINESS. POVERTY CAN'T BUY ANYTHING

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    I think you're misreading your audience here. A word of advice. This trade takes a thick skin. If you were offended by a comment that meant nothing, you will find the trade more difficult than it needs to be.
    LOL! Well said. And I'm a bit of a shrinking violet which has caused me much grief. This industry seems to be a very interesting combination of rough-and-tumble, sage wisdom, eclectic nerdism, etc. And it involves a subject of profound interest to its participants so I feel a compelling need to be, ugh, responsible here.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmst View Post
    LOL! Well said. And I'm a bit of a shrinking violet which has caused me much grief. This industry seems to be a very interesting combination of rough-and-tumble, sage wisdom, eclectic nerdism, etc. And it involves a subject of profound interest to its participants so I feel a compelling need to be, ugh, responsible here.
    I stopped turning wrenches not quite 10 years ago and not by choice. I suffered a career ending injury and currently run a supply house. Working at the supply house I have met some of the smartest men in my life. Some of which I would never speak to were it not for the trade. Don't get riled up over a online forum.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Why is it that those who complain the most contribute the least?
    MONEY CAN'T BUY HAPPINESS. POVERTY CAN'T BUY ANYTHING

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    I stopped turning wrenches not quite 10 years ago and not by choice. I suffered a career ending injury and currently run a supply house. Working at the supply house I have met some of the smartest men in my life. Some of which I would never speak to were it not for the trade. Don't get riled up over a online forum.
    Sorry to hear about the injury and not being able to keep wrenching on equipment. I'm sure these smart people also count themselves fortunate to interact with their friendly supply guy.

    My software misadventures also put me in contact with capable people but I wasn't able to fully appreciate the nature of their genius. It was more of a thing that my brain just refuses to do rather than a case of something natural and excellent. There's a famous maxim about the successful programmer having three qualities: hubris, impatience and laziness, though s/he does often work hard analyzing problems and implementing solutions. In order to loaf.

  8. #128
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    I meant to comment when this was first posted
    1. Honesty
    2. He/she shows up for work when asked to
    3. Natural ability is a huge plus, but I can teach the rest

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Answer-Man View Post
    I meant to comment when this was first posted
    1. Honesty
    2. He/she shows up for work when asked to
    3. Natural ability is a huge plus, but I can teach the rest
    This is reasonable and gives me a chance to get back on my aptitude soap box. Natural ability might be seen to promote honesty. A person who is mechanically inclined is more likely to *care* about the equipment he's working on. He's just connected to it more intimately. He may not particularly care for the customer service side of things or people in general but will do the right thing out of personal pride. I've run across this in the software world where I was thrown in over my head and lacked the certainty, confidence and power born of natural abiity in order to maintain personal integrity. Projects failed as a result.

    Of course the argument can be made that I lacked honesty in order to wade in over my head. There are various complicating factors and justifications but I really do feel that the missing natural ability impeded my strenuous efforts to see the big picture and pick up the needed skills and make things go right on these projects.

  10. #130
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    How about cash? I read a fantasy novel in which apprenticeships were commonly "purchased" for a lump sum. The idea seems rather feudal at first, but has certain advantages. I have gathered that the cost and risk of onboarding an HVAC apprentice are normally offset by making him of immediate value to the Jman carrying tools and equipment, etc. A lump sum might incentivize an employer to take a chance by giving the new worker more skilled tasks reflecting his already advanced skills needing only a few weeks of practice in order to bring up to a somewhat professional level. During busy summer months, this might be highly profitable.

    What are the costs and risks which would need to be offset? Is it considerably more or less than, say, $5000?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmst View Post
    This is reasonable and gives me a chance to get back on my aptitude soap box. Natural ability might be seen to promote honesty. A person who is mechanically inclined is more likely to *care* about the equipment he's working on. He's just connected to it more intimately. He may not particularly care for the customer service side of things or people in general but will do the right thing out of personal pride. I've run across this in the software world where I was thrown in over my head and lacked the certainty, confidence and power born of natural abiity in order to maintain personal integrity. Projects failed as a result.

    Of course the argument can be made that I lacked honesty in order to wade in over my head. There are various complicating factors and justifications but I really do feel that the missing natural ability impeded my strenuous efforts to see the big picture and pick up the needed skills and make things go right on these projects.
    Not necessarily. I've seen several techs come through the door who are very talented with their hands and diagnostics, but they were found to use their skills to trick customers and rip them off. Skillfulness is not an indicator of honesty.

    Aptitude is probably most important, but so is being able to deliver with that aptitude and staying grounded because at no point will you know everything. I've seen guys who have a strong desire to learn, but it takes 10 times of repeating myself to get them to do one simple task. Then there are those who are genuinely curious to learn and they grasp concepts quick. Those are the best techs to have.
    Everything Im going to say today are my conclusions and my opinions, my opinions are based on my education, my training, my experience. Different people have different experiences, so they have different opinions and I make no claim that my opinion has its origin in the mind greatness. - Paul Harrell

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  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by CircusEnvy View Post
    Not necessarily. I've seen several techs come through the door who are very talented with their hands and diagnostics, but they were found to use their skills to trick customers and rip them off. Skillfulness is not an indicator of honesty.

    Aptitude is probably most important, but so is being able to deliver with that aptitude and staying grounded because at no point will you know everything. I've seen guys who have a strong desire to learn, but it takes 10 times of repeating myself to get them to do one simple task. Then there are those who are genuinely curious to learn and they grasp concepts quick. Those are the best techs to have.
    Likely. I'd be willing to bet companies that see the most of this have pay schemes that incentivize dishonest practices and conduct limited reviews of techs' field sales beyond simple revenue/complaint ratios.

  14. #133
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    What was that you just said . . . ?


    Quote Originally Posted by CircusEnvy View Post
    Not necessarily. I've seen several techs come through the door who are very talented with their hands and diagnostics, but they were found to use their skills to trick customers and rip them off. Skillfulness is not an indicator of honesty.

    Aptitude is probably most important, but so is being able to deliver with that aptitude and staying grounded because at no point will you know everything. I've seen guys who have a strong desire to learn, but it takes 10 times of repeating myself to get them to do one simple task. Then there are those who are genuinely curious to learn and they grasp concepts quick. Those are the best techs to have.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    What was that you just said . . . ?
    LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  17. #135
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    Wish I had learned this earlier. Just sold my business last year, but struggled with employees for 30 years. Better late than never.

    Understanding and application of this insight. ...
    - Firstly in regard to myself.
    - Secondly in regard to others.

    The Dunning-Keuger Effect:
    learning-mind.com/dunning-kruger-effect/

    Also, great book by Michael Gerber, e-Myth Revisited, a systematic approach to business.

    I guess the key here is humility. My new estimation is that the greater the confidence (without the years of practical, evidenced experience) the greater this effect has on people. What I would have changed - work more on building my gifted skills, work less on showing my desired skills off. Learn to find others to fill in the gaps without trying to convince myself that I can do everything. Leading by example. Not everybody is built to be an entrepreneur, the sooner we learn our own makeup and find peace in that the better for us and everyone else. ;-)

    Today things are getting more difficult, as we, as a country have become so permissive, added so many safety nets that many people simply go not get hungry enough, or desire enough to motivate themselves. Life is too easy, and to strive for more is too hard for most people. Unfortunately, it does not seem like this creeping socialism is going to go away. If I were young and seeing the kind of corruption, obvious lies from media, and fiscal irresponsibility all around me, I may have simply said heck with it as well.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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  19. #136
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    You can train on technical skills, you can't train on personality and hard work. Hire for culture fit and work ethic. Don't take an ******* that knows his way around a unit over a coachable, good communicator that will fit your team, even though the second guy need a little polishing. Just my two cents.

  20. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23F5% View Post
    Wish I had learned this earlier. Just sold my business last year, but struggled with employees for 30 years. Better late than never.
    If I were young and seeing the kind of corruption, obvious lies from media, and fiscal irresponsibility all around me, I may have simply said heck with it as well.
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Someone else gets it! Thank you, sir!

    My 140-IQ get-up-at-5-am-and-attack-the-day girlfriend complains about the victimhood status of today's youngsters who lack the motivation to improve their lot but she continually fails to recognize how they've been demoralized by the pernicious effects of establishment corruption pervading society. Kids my may be clueless but they're not stupid.

  21. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23F5% View Post
    The Dunning-Keuger Effect:
    learning-mind.com/dunning-kruger-effect/

    ...

    I guess the key here is humility. My new estimation is that the greater the confidence (without the years of practical, evidenced experience) the greater this effect has on people.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Interesting. Very introverting material. I just realized that I suffered from "imposter syndrome" for years in my software career, which is the flip side of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. And now that I've learned the basics of HVAC mechanical and electrical systems I can do anything. LOL. The common denominator is, of course, a general inability to correctly assess my strengths and weaknesses. Sigh.

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