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Regular Guest
Having issue with Bacnet translator (33CNTRAN485) on Carrier 19XR chiller with writable points coming in out of service. I am having this issue with any writable point except those within the setpoint table. The main point I wish to write to is the CHIL_S_S (mainstat table) but being out of service it does not behave properly. When I try and write to this out of service point I can usually get the value to change once but I can never get it to change again or cannot release the point. I have tried putting the point back in service but, it stays out of service. I do have NSTV and can see that nothing has a force level on that point.
I am trying to install the chiller in a Tracer SC but have also tested with same results from a 3rd party bacnet tool and niagara workbench.
I believe the problem has something to do with the chiller ICVC but not sure what to do to get this to behave properly so I can start the chiller remotely.
Any help please??
Site Administrator
Thread moved to Controls forum
Professional Member
You need a software(service tool 5) or get a carrier rep to map the CCN points to the (33CNTRAN485)translator.
Regular Guest
I have the tool and have mapped the points. I have the CHIL_S_S point mapped as BV1, when I look at it from the translator maintenance table it shows that the point is writable as expected.
I also forgot to mention that I have 2 19XR chillers with the same issue. I have done this before with success on a Carrier screw chiller but not a centrifugal, not sure what is different other than the ICVC.
Professional Member
Since you have 2 chillers, going to assume the internal lead/lag feature is enabled. With lead/lag enabled, you cannot command CHIL_S_S as it is being written by the lead/lag logic built into the chillers. Need to write REMCON, not sure the bacnet point variable. REMCON needs to be enabled in both chillers, believe it is off by default as it looks at the remote contact terminals. It is command-able so you don,t need to hard wire the contacts.Originally Posted by FilterRoute10
Regular Guest
Lead lag control is set for 0 (disabled) and the options are disabled, lead, lag, or standby. The chillers do not have a CCN comm between them just a bacnet link on both of the translators.
The remote contact option is enabled, the previous controls contractor was using a relay to start the chiller but I would like to get away from that if possible.
Professional Member
Wrong direction IMO, the hardwire S/S is going to be more reliable than comms.
Regular Guest
I agree, however in our controls if I can start the chiller with a software point I can create a chiller object that works with our chiller plant application for staging on/off chillers. If comm is down the chiller can be started from the display.
Professional Member
The chiller must be in Network (CCN) Mode for the translator to write the Pic. If it is in local, remote, etc you can only read the points over CCN, all forces are disabled over the network.
If they are currently using the remote contact hardwire, you will need to disable the Remote Contact to write CHIL_S_S. You can just write REMCON instead, it should be BV2 (if you did automatic point mapping) and do the same thing that the external s/s is doing.
Regular Guest
I’m assuming that CCN mode means to put the click the CCN mode on the display? If so I have tried that.
I also mapped the REMCON point which shows up as writable point in the maintenance table of the translator. For some reason when I map the REMCON point it is out of service as well.
Professional Member
Can you not use a BOP or BV in the SC version of CPC? Used to do that regularly in Summit. You can still map run status, failure, temps etc if you have the data. Assuming you can do that in the SC like you could in Summit, although it wouldn’t surprise me if Trane removed that functionality to make it “better”.
Professional Member
I am puzzled at the issue now, never seen this. You mapped the points manually? Do these have the Pic 2 controls (CCM) or the older Pic1 controls (PSIO)?
I would start fresh with the translator and let it automap the points. Make sure the chiller is in CCN mode. In the translator under CONFIG, set AUTOMAP to No, save & download. Then set POINTS to Yes and download (DO NOT SAVE). This will set the translator to automap 60 points from the pic.
Attached in pdf are the default points lists you should get depending on the Pic version with automapping. You can see the Pic version with the binoculars in NSTV (lower right), the last two digits after the dash in the CESR number is the version (ie: CESR131294-12). For Pic2 controls, you should see v08 to v14, use the pdf that matches you chiller.
After the automapping, you can set AUTOMAP to Yes then change points as needed if the default points list doesn't have a point you need.
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Professional Member
I have 2 carrier chillers in lead lag mode that enable by chil_s_s and two that aren't in lead lag that also start by the same.
but as its been stated they need to be in ccn mode. reference name CONTROL needs to be set to 3. switch in enable, not remote. Did you try that yet? I didn't see you say after it was mentioned.
Since you have nstv its typically under option 2 in the user config tables
Regular Guest
Balibe -
I can see the name of both chillers in NSTV is 19XRPIC2 (I verified on ICVC they are both PIC2) and both have same version number CESR-131294-04 (7.0). The translator cards are at different versions, I have CESR131309-04 (1.4) and CESR131309-03 (1.3).
I cleared the translator and reset the points, they now match the order in your sheets. Unfortunately when I pull the points in they again come in out of service, I tried both CHIL_S_S (BV1) and REMCON (BV2) which both are working properly in the maintenance table of the translator.
Roadgear -
The SC can do the things Summit did but in order to create a chiller object in the SC there must be 1 point mapped that is writable (start/stop).
Cool Breeze -
The control mode (ccn point name "MODE") is set to CCN. Im not sure which switch in enable you are referring to, these chillers only have the NET_OPT menu in the config table.
Professional Member
in my mind i was thinking the smaller chillers that have the off/remote/enable metal switch on the front. I dont remember seeing that on the 19 sorry for confusion
Regular Guest
No problem, I appreciate you trying to help.
Professional Member
I always see people with issues using a translator. and I have no experience with it to assist. but just to know you can do it two other ways. Use a CCN router with would be through IP, or get a UPC for each machine, it does the same functionality of the translator just better. It would require someone with carrier tools to set it up though. Maybe that helps you in the future.
Regular Guest
Yeah unfortunately I dont have the iVu tools needed for the UPC, plus the chillers already had the translators installed before we took over but good to know.
Professional Member
I am at a loss. I think it is an issue with the PIC and not the translator. If I remember correctly, CESR131309-04 was the latest for the translator. I will need to verify, all our FieldLoader files are on the old office server and don't have access remotely.
The ICVC is not the controller, this is another module that controls the vanes, etc over in the starter section. Not sure the age of these, but you have an old version of software in the CCM. This is the control board behind the access cover with the Chiller LID (the local display). With PIC2 this should be a PC board and not a black box. I think your issue is these have very old software in them, but cannot confirm 100%. You mentioned having NSTV, can you force these points from NSTV with no issue? If you can, the issue is not the controller but with the version in the PIC does not support the translator for writes.
The newer OPN-UPC mentioned earlier which is a replacement for the 33CSTRANS only has factory support files for v08 and above. You may need to have the software updated in the PIC to a newer version as it may not support the 33CSTRANS. This will need to be done by a Carrier Chiller Tech as WinLoader was corporate only.
Regular Guest
Yes these chillers have the pc board behind the display and not the black box. When I use NSTV and the ICVC is in CCN mode I can force CHIL_S_S and REMCON which show a force priority as service, however if I try to force these points when chiller is in local or stop then I get a insufficient priority error (write variable 16446), which I am assuming is normal since not in CCN mode.
Something interesting I tried doing as well is switching the translator to modbus instead of bacnet since modbus does not use out of service. I can write to the CHIL_S_S and REMCON points fine when in this mode, although this makes no sense to me why these points stay out of service in bacnet???
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