I created the 2D graphics for our projects as it is cheaper, but I am not a computer graphics designer by a long shot. We have been outsourcing to a graphics company to create our 3D floorplans for us to enhance our projects. We have been busy, so it also removes this task from me to focus on the projects.

For the labor costs for me to create 2D walls only floorplans from Cad files, which are easier then creating from a Pdf. They can create 3D floorplans for us from PDF or Cad files. They can even include duct work/equipment and/or furniture if needed for the project.

Below are a couple floorplans they created for us recently, one with duct work and one with furniture/cubicles.

 

Are you guys using Joe? Name eludes me but he was the graphics guy at the Atlanta 2017 expo

 

Looking good [emoji6]

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Nice!
But where does it come from? What program do they use?
If you need to move a wall down the road, is that a hassle?

 

We usually don't charge for small changes even after a few years

Technology used Maya and VRAY 5 on RTX rendering engine.

It comes from Austin Texas

 

I've had some success making 3d graphics with Sketchup, though it's more locked down than it used to be. Blender is a great open source option, but it comes with a huge learning curve and i've never mastered what it takes to just make clean straight lines from a floorplan and extrude them into a nice 3d model.

I'm also curious what the professionals like alper use, though i'm sure it probably costs $$$ and everything is on a subscription these days. So unless you have the time to be "the graphics guy" and the volume justifies the cost of the software, it might be worthwhile to outsource to alper or one of the other big graphics outfits.

 

Cost is going up. Autodesk is subscription based. Vray is expensive as well. In order to increase render quality we opted in using vrscans. https://www.chaosgroup.com/vrscans Also yearly subscription.

Learned the hardway that vrscans are highly CPU intensive then moved on purchasing RTX graphics cards in order to be cost competitive. I think renders are coming out great now with depth and we can turn it around very fast. During covid time, we have adjusted fast where 5 designers login to their desktops. All designers are US based too, a lot of people outsource the work overseas where exchange rates helps them lower their costs.

 

I just outsource it, ends up being less expensive that way. Only issue is waiting, the couple places I've used are at least 2 weeks. It's not a long wait, just have to plan for it.

Good luck.

 

I've had BAS graphics do 3d floor plans in the past. They turn out great, the cost is very reasonable, and they get them out quick. I started messing around with sketchup a few years back, and it just doesn't make sense cost wise for us to do them in house.

 

Exactly. Unless your going to dedicate a guy or more to just that and cover all the software costs, pointless to do it in-house.

Then quantify how much additional sales does it get you even outsourced. Some want it, fair enough.

Compared to the junk we typically replace, removing the need to look at the frontend constantly trumps text vs 2D vs 3D. Most want to spend as little time as possible looking at a system. Even if they want something from the system, have the system give it to them vs hunting for it. Give them a BMS that just works and only alerts when its really needed. Gold over flashy stuff they still don't understand or floods useless crap in most cases.

 

I agree in broad strokes. I don't care about 3D graphics, and the guys using it do not care either generally. But the guy who lays out the cash for the project often is impressed when he sees it in a presentation. And then expects to see the finished product looking like the demo he saw.

 

Some want it. Makes no sense to do it in-house. No doubt about it. We go there, but in the end...

Solve their daily hassles in most cases they don't give a toss about what the frontend looks like. Their goal is to spend as little time as possible looking at our crap ideally.

Function over form.

Quantify the additional sales.

 

A smart man once told me that all the end user buys is graphics. That’s all they see when the job is complete.

I think you should both do a great job and provide awesome graphics. The two are not mutually exclusive and great graphics are not expensive.


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We use Blender.


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If you are talking about BMP's of JPEgs, Ive used a lot of different programs in the past. However the best one is actually Autocad. Learning curve is long and steep but you can do absolutely anything you want.

If you are talking Web graphics, Its SVG. But unless you want to spend a ton of money or be on a forever payment plan, it is inkscape but really depends on the system you are using.

For the most part I use Struxureware I use a combination of autocad,, Inkscape and the built in TGML graphics program.

 

I just had four floor plan graphics made for a site by BAS graphics. Again, quick, cheap and spot on. It just doesn't pay for us to do these when we have those cheaper options.

 

How is it ever cheaper to pay someone else to do something you can do? It is just money out of your pocket.

 

I was enjoying the thread while working on this floor plan lego with my son.

We have just invested into A6000 graphics card. Renders will get out much faster not that we were slow.

 

working on this floor plan lego with my son.

You better do it quick or the kid will outsource it to a cheaper vendor.

 

I suppose, that Im much faster and we have a different workflow than you.

When A new job comes in, if it isnt in Auocad, Ill trace it into Autocad from photos or whatever is provided. All further documentation for submittals and construction documents comes from that trace of the floorplan. The autocad floor plan isnt made again.

Of course, it depends on how big the building is but for example I try to keep a wing together in a single graphic if possible but if it is huge ill go for 12 or so classrooms or like rooms like a group of offices with a couple of VVT systems. It all depends on how readable it is when you are dont. Its hard to read 5 pixel fonts. I try to keep them above 12 so what fits on a single graphic is dependent of font side.

I can generally do a 3D floorplan in autocad, then import it into the TGML editor, add all the interactive components, animation and bindings and create what ever Javascript and links that are needed in about an hour.

Unit graphics are a different story. They are completely done in SVG/TGML No BMP's Mostly drawn in Inkscape. I have a big library ive developed over the years so except for the case of custom graphics it is simply drag and drop. I can do 30 or so VAV or similar graphics, link and bind them in a day.

Most customers these days want Energy Dashboards and other like animations so they can see what is going on at any particular time. Kind of the whole point of a EMS. A graphics shop isnt going to make these for you. Again, this is where the money is.

Graphics are where you make money. It is the only thing that the customer can see and relate too.

 

Jimmy you don't have to suppose your much faster than me at autocad that is 100 percent the case. I don't use autocad that much, if at all. I live in an area where wages, and hour rates are above the industry average by a lot. So pay scale and job cost have to be figured in a different view if lets say my wage is 30 percent higher than yours? Not saying it is at all, but the numbers calculated based on cost to the job would have to be figured. By your own estimate of most floor plans being completed in an hour. This job was small and had four plans made, but if I run our job cost versus what we paid to have them done and your one hour labor figure at our cost. We saved over half the cost having them done. Regarding the comment that most customers want energy dashboards I can't think of the last time we did dashboard stuff for a customer, and I'm a hundred percent positive BAS can make some sweet dashboards if contracted. Maybe different cliental? Maybe different approach? I would agree that most customers UI experience is important for sure. I'm also sure anybody doing this has library's of equipment graphics that can be a template for the next job, so specifically the floor plans are at question because every new job has a new floor plan. Care to post any screen captures of these? I would love to see them? Or if you get PRO status? There has been a controls wall of pride thread started you could display them there.

 

A suggestion. Good to watch how the kids in a new school play on the playground for a while before jumping in full force.
We tend to interact with viewpoint that we will see each other again every day for years, sitting next to each other in class over and over again. So we tend be extra cordial generally. Controls is a SMALL ecosystem, and here on Htalk it is no different.. Plenty of room for strong opinions, but also good to leave room for healthy disagreement when objective, measurable, demonstrable facts and procedures are not in play.
Also we all regularly get pushed into bizarre integration situations, and benefit greatly from each others expertise. It is easier to get a bone thrown your way when you have been tossing some to others for a while already - like you have been.
I love the addition of a Schneider voice. I pinch hit for Continuum and EcoStruxure myself.
You are gonna luv it here... And don't worry! You will be the tetherball champion in no time.

 

My 3rd or 4th post on Htalk, I got excited to try to win a set of tools for a tool-tips contest. I didn't bother with the test area and got halfway through a post when I heard my better half threaten my life if I didn't get off the computer and go to bed. It was well deserved, I am like every snickers commercial when I am tired - not hungry...
Instead of deleting my half baked post, I posted it - and picked up a flamer who followed me around and lit me up for a week or two over it. He posted the quote in my autosignature... hehe. Still makes me chuckle.
It is always good to give a guy a few strikes before writing them off. I would like to think the forum has benefitted from the mod that bailed me out and gave me another chance to do something productive with my time here.

 

Hehe....

 

Yeah when I read Jimmy's post about the each controller having a web server the ECY distech controller like numba stated came to mind. I've done a few jobs with them, and in the early inception they didn't have single sign on figured out, and so it was login into each controller liked stated. I used a Jace on those jobs for that reason, and because both sites where already existing jace sites. They figured single sign on out fairly quickly. The ecyplse system the Jace does go away, and with embedded envysion graphics basically DGlux5 yes what Jimmy is saying does show some traction. I believe this is just a push by other controls companies to get away from feeding Tridium pockets. The thing that I see is a push away from the programmer in general. I was at the last Distech conference in Miami, and also have attended JCI's traveling road show. There is a strong focus on tools that speed up the process, auto create programming, and graphics. They'll do your engineering, drawings, program it for you and send it to the job site tagged with the right address. So would I spend a bunch of time learning all things spoken about as the future? Maybe we all should? But when you can do some correct selections from a Q/A session or the new Distech builder app, and your staring at fully auto created nice looking graphic what skill will I need? The ability to break down the source code behind it? Not where I see this going. I'm thankful I come from a strong mechanical background, and if I need to lug compressors across the roof to put food on the table then that's what will happen.

 

But when you can do some correct selections from a Q/A session or the new Distech builder app, and your staring at fully auto created nice looking graphic what skill will I need? The ability to break down the source code behind it? Not where I see this going. I'm thankful I come from a strong mechanical background, and if I need to lug compressors across the roof to put food on the table then that's what will happen.

You'll be the one guy that can fix it when that all that stuff doesn't work. I don't expect that automating the automation process will be trouble free.

 

And in conclusion. Its cheaper to outsource floor plans! LOL

 

nice quo "the ability to speak does not..."

 

Aimir CG is an architectural visualization company based in China, delivering consistent art quality 3D rendering services and animations worldwide. We are fast, efficient and always deliver on time. Our professionalism and communication skills make us easy to work with and the end product was nothing short of impressive!