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Thread: Electrify Everything

  1. #41
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    wind power is a joke

    I dunno why they dont concentrate on water power ... the rivers are reliable , and water is a strong force

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    85% of a turbine is recycled. The guy that wants to renew nuclear power pretends to be concerned with waste.

    I don't know, what do you know?

    I never said renew nuclear (fission) power. There's obviously a huge difference between what you're thinking, and what I said. Sorry.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    I never said renew nuclear (fission) power. There's obviously a huge difference between what you're thinking, and what I said. Sorry.

    Go back and read your own posts. You said thorium reactors which is a fision reactor and "smaller" reactors then you added fusion reactors. You're welcome.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE3298 View Post
    The problem I have had with renewable energy is you can push technology but you can't force it. Some day the world will have to have vast quantities of renewable energy and we should work in that direction. The dishonest media tries to make it look like we have to have it all now and that isn't true.

    The reputable media is just saying what the vast majority of reputable scientists in that field are saying.
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  5. #45
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    When scientists can tell me what caused the ice age ... I might believe scientists

    For instance ... their idea of global warming

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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by billygoat22 View Post
    I'm waiting to see what happens when so much solar power is put in w/o battery back up, and the demand on grid spikes up and down at dusk and dawn, that should be interesting.
    I have not read the entire thread yet... it is possible someone else already posted this...

    Do some searching online (NOT google, they lie)...
    And you will find that California literally has to PAY other states to take their excess solar power during the day...
    NOT KIDDING!

    It is mostly political...
    And IMO the problems are not worked out yet.

    Personal comment: I do like the idea of each house having solar panels and a battery...
    Lowers the load on the grid... which would be a HUGE cost to rebuild and/or expand...
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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I have not read the entire thread yet... it is possible someone else already posted this...

    Do some searching online (NOT google, they lie)...
    And you will find that California literally has to PAY other states to take their excess solar power during the day...
    NOT KIDDING!

    It is mostly political...
    And IMO the problems are not worked out yet.

    Personal comment: I do like the idea of each house having solar panels and a battery...
    Lowers the load on the grid... which would be a HUGE cost to rebuild and/or expand...
    It is not surprising really and it is a good problem and not a bad one really. I haven't seen any recent stories about this I heard about it many times years ago and nothing recently. There is more battery capacity now and more on the way. This really comes from so many homeowners adding to the grid.

    As far as homeowners having batteries it can be good for them in a power outage but the grid stores their power and gives them credit basically for free without the expense of the batteries. The grid should be upgraded in any event.
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  9. #48
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    Electrify Everything....... How's that working out for you total electric folks, or you heat pump fans?

    This latest major Artic air mass has turned a large portion of the U.S. literally into a giant ice cube. Today I talked to several people around the country who are affected, and it's a cluster.
    Several lost their power just after midnight, and it stayed off for at least 11 or 12 hours. Temps were in the single digits.

    During the day today they are doing what they call rolling blackouts. You might have power for 30 minutes, then it is off for another 2 or 3 hours. If you're lucky. This is with temps in the teens and low 20's, or lower. No answer as to when they'll provide full time what the customer needs.

    Very very poor management on the part of the ones who make the decisions as to what plants to bring online and when. So far their excuse has been that this is a freak situation. No mention of the fact that they had at least a couple weeks to prepare.

    If you're all electric, and you have done nothing to prepare, your pipes will freeze right along with you. This cold spell has days to go before it warms up.

    Massive electrical grids are not where we need to be, now, nor in the future. The sun doesn't shine for days or weeks on end in some of these areas. You really think solar, or wind are a solution? Wake up. I hope you don't fall victim to your brave new electric green world.

    Please stop trying to force it on me.

  10. #49
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    Oh, and I forgot to mention......

    Oklahoma says part of the problem with insufficient capacity to meet customer demands during this cold snap, and leading to the blackouts, is lack of wind....... go figure.

  11. #50
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    TELCO batteries were always on a float from the utility and only came into need when the power lines were down and before the back up generator picked up the load. Typical PbCa 2VDC cells lasted 20 years and many were bought by folks like me for a off the grid power supply. They did not last long in those applications as they did not like being cycled much. TELCO batteries were also a bit of a smoothing effect for the 48VDC power on the phone lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    The telephone company relied on batteries for more than 100 years to power their entire nationwide system and it seemed to work out really well.

    PHM
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  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    It is not surprising really and it is a good problem and not a bad one really. I haven't seen any recent stories about this I heard about it many times years ago and nothing recently. There is more battery capacity now and more on the way. This really comes from so many homeowners adding to the grid.

    As far as homeowners having batteries it can be good for them in a power outage but the grid stores their power and gives them credit basically for free without the expense of the batteries. The grid should be upgraded in any event.

    I've come back to this thread a couple times, and every time I read your post, it makes me want to ask a question.

    The North American Electric grid is basically composed of 5 interconnected electrical grids. The Eastern, Western, Quebec, and Alaska Interconnections.

    How, and where does that grid you're talking about store homeowners power?

    I'm in Texas, and if you haven't already heard, our utility companies really screwed the pooch this time. The temperatures have dropped to single digits, and we've got plenty of snow, sleet, and ice to go around. All week we've been forced into rolling blackouts, and now, controlled shutdowns.

    I sure would appreciate it if you could tell me where I can access some of that stored power. I'm cold, and my water pipes are frozen.

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    I've come back to this thread a couple times, and every time I read your post, it makes me want to ask a question.

    The North American Electric grid is basically composed of 5 interconnected electrical grids. The Eastern, Western, Quebec, and Alaska Interconnections.

    How, and where does that grid you're talking about store homeowners power?

    I'm in Texas, and if you haven't already heard, our utility companies really screwed the pooch this time. The temperatures have dropped to single digits, and we've got plenty of snow, sleet, and ice to go around. All week we've been forced into rolling blackouts, and now, controlled shutdowns.

    I sure would appreciate it if you could tell me where I can access some of that stored power. I'm cold, and my water pipes are frozen.

    For some reason you left out the Texas grid, why is that?

    If a homeowner has solar power usually they can go through the expense of storing their own power at a great expense. A good 100AH battery costs basically $1,000.00 plus all the other expenses. Now that doesn't come without some pluses which could be useful in a time like this. Or they can connect to the grid where they get credit for any excess power that they put back into the system. Or the power company basically acts as storage of the excess energy generated with their solar panels. There are hybrid systems which combine the two.
    The power company will use, store or sell the excess energy. Now depending on how it is ran or regulated they can do all this based on profit or for the public welfare.

    I am surprised you don't at least have a gas generator or a small solar set up. I wish you well, keep us informed.



    "2. The utility grid is a virtual battery
    Electricity has to be spent in real time. However, it can be temporarily stored as other forms of energy (e.g. chemical energy in batteries). Energy storage typically comes with significant losses.

    The electric power grid is in many ways also a battery, without the need for maintenance or replacements, and with much better efficiency rates."

    https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/gr...-solar-systems
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  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    For some reason you left out the Texas grid, why is that?

    If a homeowner has solar power usually they can go through the expense of storing their own power at a great expense. A good 100AH battery costs basically $1,000.00 plus all the other expenses. Now that doesn't come without some pluses which could be useful in a time like this. Or they can connect to the grid where they get credit for any excess power that they put back into the system. Or the power company basically acts as storage of the excess energy generated with their solar panels. There are hybrid systems which combine the two.
    The power company will use, store or sell the excess energy. Now depending on how it is ran or regulated they can do all this based on profit or for the public welfare.

    I am surprised you don't at least have a gas generator or a small solar set up. I wish you well, keep us informed.



    "2. The utility grid is a virtual battery
    Electricity has to be spent in real time. However, it can be temporarily stored as other forms of energy (e.g. chemical energy in batteries). Energy storage typically comes with significant losses.

    The electric power grid is in many ways also a battery, without the need for maintenance or replacements, and with much better efficiency rates."

    https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/gr...-solar-systems
    Must have been a subliminal thing forgetting to write in Texas. Everybody in the state is livid, me included. I suspect some heads will roll, and rightly so.

    Yes, I have a generator running my propane furnace, some lighting, the internet, and some other basics. This afternoon's walk around, and no busted pipes on the well system, or the community water. Yet.

    I'm extremely happy with myself for refusing to go all electric, like so many of my neighbors.

    Sun hasn't been out in a forever, and the majority of the time here, little wind. Actually a good thing when it's in the single digits.

    Today they announced they were bringing on a Nuke, and some coal fire, and as many natural gas turbines as they could.

    This push to make everything green, along with some piss poor management, has things really screwed up here right now.

    So, if I understand this correctly, the majority of this homeowner electrical storage you're referring to is on paper, with a little bit of it going into some chemical batteries?

    Paper burns. Where can I find some of that paper?

  15. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    Must have been a subliminal thing forgetting to write in Texas. Everybody in the state is livid, me included. I suspect some heads will roll, and rightly so.

    Yes, I have a generator running my propane furnace, some lighting, the internet, and some other basics. This afternoon's walk around, and no busted pipes on the well system, or the community water. Yet.

    I'm extremely happy with myself for refusing to go all electric, like so many of my neighbors.

    Sun hasn't been out in a forever, and the majority of the time here, little wind. Actually a good thing when it's in the single digits.

    Today they announced they were bringing on a Nuke, and some coal fire, and as many natural gas turbines as they could.

    This push to make everything green, along with some piss poor management, has things really screwed up here right now.

    So, if I understand this correctly, the majority of this homeowner electrical storage you're referring to is on paper, with a little bit of it going into some chemical batteries?

    Paper burns. Where can I find some of that paper?

    Glad you are doing OK. After that going green has next to nothing to do with this but uninformed people will repeat that over and over again I am sure. Money is paper isn't it?
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  16. #55
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    Electrify Everything

    Isnt the problem in Texas related to the execs pocketing profits Instead of investing in the distribution system?

    Kinda like cant pull 50 amps on number 12 wire.

    They never upsized the system to handle all those 20kw heat strips everyone installed with their heat pumps?

    At least that is what I caught a glimpse of without reading the whole article.


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  18. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhenergy View Post
    Isnt the problem in Texas related to the execs pocketing profits Instead of investing in the distribution system?

    Kinda like cant pull 50 amps on number 12 wire.

    They never upsized the system to handle all those 20kw heat strips everyone installed with their heat pumps?

    At least that is what I caught a glimpse of without reading the whole article.


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    Absolutely, profit driven management who are rewarded for unreliability, and punished for reliability.

    You are now seeing the future for the rest of the country if they're allowed to continue the green push.

    I suspect it's hit a hard wall here in Texas, and the academic conversation portion of the issue is about over.

  19. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Glad you are doing OK. After that going green has next to nothing to do with this but uninformed people will repeat that over and over again I am sure. Money is paper isn't it?

    In reality, Green has everything to do with this situation. Due to conditions, Solar power input to the grid was nearly non-existent, and because of the cold and icy weather, Wind input to the grid was way below expected.

    Managers were playing roulette with our lives, and made some very poor decisions. It's criminal. Too many people have lost their lives over this green energy stupidity.

    I read an article yesterday that was blaming all this on natural gas. There are some really stupid reporters spewing crap for the uninformed to swallow.

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  21. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    In reality, Green has everything to do with this situation. Due to conditions, Solar power input to the grid was nearly non-existent, and because of the cold and icy weather, Wind input to the grid was way below expected.

    Managers were playing roulette with our lives, and made some very poor decisions. It's criminal. Too many people have lost their lives over this green energy stupidity.

    I read an article yesterday that was blaming all this on natural gas. There are some really stupid reporters spewing crap for the uninformed to swallow.

    That is pure nonsense, I am amazed with thinking like that you are able to get through a day.

    You also talked about not liking a large grid. Did you notice the parts of Texas hooked up to the National Grid they did not have the problems you did?

    Texas shot itself in the foot by not wanting to be part of the other grids and taking the good advice that regulation brings. They cut their production too close and did not winterize as they were advised to do. While you sit back and believe the lies you are spoon fed. smh.
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  22. #59
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    The green energy movement wants to totally eliminate the use of fossil fuels. We've heard that over and over and over. At present fossil fuels are plentiful thanks to President Trump. Given that information libs please explain why Artrose is wrong and while you are at it explain why solar and wind energy isn't working in this cold weather. Wind and solar are an integral part of going green so if they are failing why to keep pushing that crap. Come up with a viable green energy that is reliable and us conservatives will embrace it but quit trying to shame us into accepting things that we know will fail.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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  24. #60
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    I guess Im still a little confused as I have not researched it enough as we have our own problems with a cold snap up here keeping us busy.

    But from what I gathered their (in a basic sense) wire size is to small to provide enough power as everyone starts drawing more with their heat strips on.

    Where is the correlation to wind power.

    Even if Nat gas plants were/are running the grid cant handle the increase in power consumption/draw.

    Again maybe I just missed it but Im interested none the less as I just read an article about our local supplier and the plan for the grid over the next 15 years, and Im hoping there are not similarities.


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