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Thread: Electrify Everything

  1. #21
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    I'm waiting to see what happens when so much solar power is put in w/o battery back up, and the demand on grid spikes up and down at dusk and dawn, that should be interesting.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by billygoat22 View Post
    I'm waiting to see what happens when so much solar power is put in w/o battery back up, and the demand on grid spikes up and down at dusk and dawn, that should be interesting.
    I bet 100+ years ago you would have said get a horse to the idea of cars waiting for them to break down.
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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I bet 100+ years ago you would have said get a horse to the idea of cars waiting for them to break down.
    Hey at least he would have had a slow enjoyable life.
    I knew someone who grew up on the edge of the tractor era and he hated horses with a passion thought they were disgusting vile creatures. He also fought in world war ii. I sure miss him.

    Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben_john7 View Post
    Yes, it's not a very attractive prospect...
    We have blackouts now and will in the future. Do you seriously think that this isn't taken into account when planning for the future? Like the people denying the inevitable future with cars and thinking they were right when a car broke down you can do the same here if you wish while forward thinking people carry you along screaming into the future.
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  6. #25
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    Heat pumps have come a long way. For many customers, electricity is all they have without going to the additional expense of a propane or fuel oil installation.
    If the house is well sealed a heat pump system is perfectly fine. As we all know, a leaky house or a bad installation will be uncomfortable and costly.
    The principle of electrifying everything is excellent until people get involved who try to exploit it. But that is true of everything.
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    https://www.hvac20.com/ High efficiency equipment alone does not provide home comfort and efficiency. HVAC2.0 is a process for finding the real needs of the house and the occupants. Offer the customer a menu of work to address their problems and give them a probability of success.

    Find contractors with specialized training in combustion analysis, residential system performance, air flow, and duct optimization https://www.myhomecomfort.org/


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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    We have blackouts now and will in the future. Do you seriously think that this isn't taken into account when planning for the future? Like the people denying the inevitable future with cars and thinking they were right when a car broke down you can do the same here if you wish while forward thinking people carry you along screaming into the future.
    Cogeneration plants are a step in the right direction. The very large electrical grids that presently serve the US should not be the future. The California experience should help to enlighten the clueless. We have yet to experience a well timed solar flare. It's unimaginable knowing what we know about nature, that we would allow ourselves exposure to such a massive system wide failure. Eventually it will happen.

    Localized power generation, utilizing a local area's resources is one answer.

    One area might have potential for hydro power, another geothermal, another fossil fuels, and others might rely on small nuclear electrical generators. The area served might be as small as a city, or a neighborhood, or even a single factory, building, or vehicle. It all depends on the need, and the available resource.

    Eventually, when viable nuclear fusion generators, or thorium reactors, or something similar, become available, we will have solved most of the issues people are so concerned about today. The green weenies will need to go find some other cause.

    Repeating what has been said earlier....... windmills and solar panels in their current state of technology are not answers. They could be a piece of the puzzle, but they are not the answer to the big picture, no matter what line of crap you're being fed.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    Cogeneration plants are a step in the right direction. The very large electrical grids that presently serve the US should not be the future. The California experience should help to enlighten the clueless. We have yet to experience a well timed solar flare. It's unimaginable knowing what we know about nature, that we would allow ourselves exposure to such a massive system wide failure. Eventually it will happen.

    Localized power generation, utilizing a local area's resources is one answer.

    One area might have potential for hydro power, another geothermal, another fossil fuels, and others might rely on small nuclear electrical generators. The area served might be as small as a city, or a neighborhood, or even a single factory, building, or vehicle. It all depends on the need, and the available resource.

    Eventually, when viable nuclear fusion generators, or thorium reactors, or something similar, become available, we will have solved most of the issues people are so concerned about today. The green weenies will need to go find some other cause.

    Repeating what has been said earlier....... windmills and solar panels in their current state of technology are not answers. They could be a piece of the puzzle, but they are not the answer to the big picture, no matter what line of crap you're being fed.
    I don't eat crap but you enjoy yours.
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I don't eat crap but you enjoy yours.

    Don't get mad.

    I'd like to hear your opinion, and your solutions for the issues that you think might need a fix.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    Don't get mad.

    I'd like to hear your opinion, and your solutions for the issues that you think might need a fix.
    Not the least bit mad just responding in kind.

    That is a tall order for one post but I will address some that you touched on.
    I am all for hardening the grid and storing extra transformers and equipment for when they might be needed. With the nature of greener fuels and solar power many people will be less dependent on the grid but it will still be there and be needed.
    Cogeneration is good and can be utilized in some areas and expect that to expand as well.
    I hope to see expansion in wind and solar along with battery storage which is expanding and green hydrogen.
    You seem to want to wait for fusion reactors to move which is silly.
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  11. #30
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    I dont think depending on batteries is a good idea , and with solar you need ALOT of them

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemach View Post

    Right now some states have mandates to produce a certain amount of electric from renewable sources.

    I think in California all new houses have to have solar. This should cut down on the green house gases produced.
    Mandates for new houses forced to have those systems actually shut down when the grid shuts down, because they are panels only, no battery backup.

    So that law is just making everyone produce power for the grid... but it’s really funny to watch them all cry when the grid goes down and they can’t understand why they have panels on their house and can’t use it! Hahahahaha

  13. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapperhead View Post
    I dont think depending on batteries is a good idea , and with solar you need ALOT of them
    I think for solar to cover 100% of our needs it would take like .6% of our land to do that. Then if you account for the proliferation of solar panels on homes that you talked about then it would make that even less. Batteries are and will be a part of the grid.
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  14. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Not the least bit mad just responding in kind.

    That is a tall order for one post but I will address some that you touched on.
    I am all for hardening the grid and storing extra transformers and equipment for when they might be needed. With the nature of greener fuels and solar power many people will be less dependent on the grid but it will still be there and be needed.
    Cogeneration is good and can be utilized in some areas and expect that to expand as well.
    I hope to see expansion in wind and solar along with battery storage which is expanding and green hydrogen.
    You seem to want to wait for fusion reactors to move which is silly.

    I never said anything about wanting to wait for fusion (not fission) reactors. For that technology though, rather than plodding along and making projection promises like we've done for the past 50 years, we need to do a better job at pushing that specific technology, because it will likely be the ultimate solution.

    One good use of your windmills and solar panels today would be to put them to work making liquified hydrogen. A traditional battery system approach is bogus.

    Too many of us think of ourselves as masters of the universe, (our environment, whatever) and that we have the power to generate electricity. That's not correct. We convert energy. And the most efficient system that converts energy with the least amount of effort and expenditure, is the winner.

    Windmills and solar panels are lousy investments for our future.

  15. #34
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    The telephone company relied on batteries for more than 100 years to power their entire nationwide system and it seemed to work out really well.

    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by Snapperhead View Post
    I dont think depending on batteries is a good idea , and with solar you need ALOT of them
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of Thinking

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  17. #35
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    Has anyone heard where using differential water temperatures in the ocean went? Haven't heard anything about that in years.
    No man can be both ignorant and free.
    Thomas Jefferson

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  19. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I bet 100+ years ago you would have said get a horse to the idea of cars waiting for them to break down.
    If you said making lots of cars without having gas stations or bridges and using rutted mud trails, cars would have been not much of an improvement.

    Pointing out a new tech cant work as installed isnt anti-tech, its sensible. solar was a thing in 70s, subsidys went away and solar died pretty quick.


    you cant flip a nuclear plant on and off like a light switch, if too much daylight only solar is on grid, it will make it hard for power companies to match up the plants with demand as the sun sets or rises. they would be obliged to use natural gas turbines more to match up such a variable demand, and they're more expensive to operate.
    One power co in va uses their nuclear power at low demand times to pump water from a lower lake to higher lake to keep the plant demand stable and reuse water that's used for hydro elec power, smooths out demand.
    if you dont have storage of some sort, solar cannot be a primary part of elec grid supply.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

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  21. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by billygoat22 View Post
    If you said making lots of cars without having gas stations or bridges and using rutted mud trails, cars would have been not much of an improvement.

    Pointing out a new tech cant work as installed isnt anti-tech, its sensible. solar was a thing in 70s, subsidys went away and solar died pretty quick.


    you cant flip a nuclear plant on and off like a light switch, if too much daylight only solar is on grid, it will make it hard for power companies to match up the plants with demand as the sun sets or rises. they would be obliged to use natural gas turbines more to match up such a variable demand, and they're more expensive to operate.
    One power co in va uses their nuclear power at low demand times to pump water from a lower lake to higher lake to keep the plant demand stable and reuse water that's used for hydro elec power, smooths out demand.
    if you dont have storage of some sort, solar cannot be a primary part of elec grid supply.
    Your analogy makes no sense. You talk as if there is no battery backup being built or planned.

    Solar is booming now so that is another comment of yours that makes no sense.

    1.7 million years ago you would have said what do you do when the fire goes out.
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  22. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by billygoat22 View Post
    If you said making lots of cars without having gas stations or bridges and using rutted mud trails, cars would have been not much of an improvement.

    Pointing out a new tech cant work as installed isnt anti-tech, its sensible. solar was a thing in 70s, subsidys went away and solar died pretty quick.


    you cant flip a nuclear plant on and off like a light switch, if too much daylight only solar is on grid, it will make it hard for power companies to match up the plants with demand as the sun sets or rises. they would be obliged to use natural gas turbines more to match up such a variable demand, and they're more expensive to operate.
    One power co in va uses their nuclear power at low demand times to pump water from a lower lake to higher lake to keep the plant demand stable and reuse water that's used for hydro elec power, smooths out demand.
    if you dont have storage of some sort, solar cannot be a primary part of elec grid supply.
    Your analogy makes no sense. You talk as if there is no battery backup being built or planned.

    Solar is booming now so that is another comment of yours that makes no sense.

    1.7 million years ago you would have said what do you do when the fire goes out?

    I added the question mark since I can't edit for some reason.
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  23. #39
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    Here's something else for the greenies to chew on, or dispute if they like.

    Solar photovoltaic systems installed in 2019 received a 30% rebate, 26% for 2020, 22% for 2021, and are scheduled to be phased out in 2022.

    We (were) heading in the proper direction with all the giveaway programs.

    You can be assured that with the new green administration, these governmental giveaways, at the taxpayers expense, will once again charge ahead. And what I've listed here is only one small piece of the puzzle. We were headed in the right direction, but now, soon, we will be wasting more of our tax dollars to fill the pockets of the few.

    For what it's worth, here's a nugget from my experience.

    Back in the mid 2000's I worked as part of an engineering group that designed and sold energy projects intended to reduce operating costs for small municipals and small school districts all around the southern U.S.. We looked at everything from the athletic field lighting and turf, to the mechanical systems, plumbing, lighting, you name it. If there was a potential for savings, we were deep into it.

    Our company offered wind and solar power solutions too.

    Without getting into specifics, but from personal experience, I can tell you that back then, the political climate of this country produced a plethora of rebate, incentive, and grant programs to promote sustainable energy projects.

    Even then, with all that promotion, and free government money, we could not make a wind power project work. And, to add some insult to the equation.........

    Even with the improvements to the systems today, without government support, wind does not work.

    Go ask the Europeans what they are doing with their 20 year old worn out wind turbine blades. They are manufactured from materials that do not degrade naturally, and are an absolute pain to deal with. We simply bury them here in the U.S.. I guess that's a sustainable / green solution? But what do I know?

  24. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artrose View Post
    Here's something else for the greenies to chew on, or dispute if they like.

    Solar photovoltaic systems installed in 2019 received a 30% rebate, 26% for 2020, 22% for 2021, and are scheduled to be phased out in 2022.

    We (were) heading in the proper direction with all the giveaway programs.

    You can be assured that with the new green administration, these governmental giveaways, at the taxpayers expense, will once again charge ahead. And what I've listed here is only one small piece of the puzzle. We were headed in the right direction, but now, soon, we will be wasting more of our tax dollars to fill the pockets of the few.

    For what it's worth, here's a nugget from my experience.

    Back in the mid 2000's I worked as part of an engineering group that designed and sold energy projects intended to reduce operating costs for small municipals and small school districts all around the southern U.S.. We looked at everything from the athletic field lighting and turf, to the mechanical systems, plumbing, lighting, you name it. If there was a potential for savings, we were deep into it.

    Our company offered wind and solar power solutions too.

    Without getting into specifics, but from personal experience, I can tell you that back then, the political climate of this country produced a plethora of rebate, incentive, and grant programs to promote sustainable energy projects.

    Even then, with all that promotion, and free government money, we could not make a wind power project work. And, to add some insult to the equation.........

    Even with the improvements to the systems today, without government support, wind does not work.

    Go ask the Europeans what they are doing with their 20 year old worn out wind turbine blades. They are manufactured from materials that do not degrade naturally, and are an absolute pain to deal with. We simply bury them here in the U.S.. I guess that's a sustainable / green solution? But what do I know?
    85% of a turbine is recycled. The guy that wants to renew nuclear power pretends to be concerned with waste.

    I don't know, what do you know?
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