Dry basement with musty smell

[teddy bear]

Lets not get too excited without a couple years of typical year around weather before we celebrate. Normal homes with moisture generating occupants and occasional damp weather systems need time demonstrate how they work.

Get a couple good %RH meters in the far corners of your home and let the time pass.
Give us the feed back on how it all works.
Wish you the best.

Regards Teddy Bear

[capecrusader]

Right, the smell is gone, which was my goal. It was done by installing a compact, quiet, energy efficient, inexpensive device. But let's not 'get excited'. Instead lets wait a few years in hopes that some internet know it all can somehow still claim victory after posting self-contradicting utter nonsense that lacked even common sense. One thing is for sure...I will not be taking anymore 'advice' from 'teddy'. LOL

[Tekjunkie]

Now you need to have a Home energy audit done with a air quality test. Id be curious to know what your co2 levels are along with VOCs. I did that and it was a real eye opener.

[teddy bear]

Right, the smell is gone, which was my goal. It was done by installing a compact, quiet, energy efficient, inexpensive device. But let's not 'get excited'. Instead lets wait a few years in hopes that some internet know it all can somehow still claim victory after posting self-contradicting utter nonsense that lacked even common sense. One thing is for sure...I will not be taking anymore 'advice' from 'teddy'. LOL

The main message is keep the space dry to control biological growth. 40 cfm plus natural ventilation is better than most.
Glad that the problem is solved. Ok maybe I got a little handed on my comments about fire control. I will accept the slap down and I am sorry.

Keep us posted next summer.

Thanks for the lively discussion.
Regards Teddy Bear

[capecrusader]

As an update to this thread:

The ERV continues to work amazing magic in my basement. It is honestly the freshest, best smelling air in the house.

I have found a negative though--energy use has gone up. This must be due to the dehumidifier needing to run more frequently as new outside air is introduced constantly. I started with the unit a the max setting, 40cfm. Worked extremely well, so I decided to see if 20cfm would be sufficient. It was, at least in the month of November here on the Cape. So, once I saw my energy bill jump up for October (compared to October 2019), I decided to see if the lowest setting, 10cfm, would be sufficient. I have had it running at 10cfm for about a month now and there is no noticeable degradation in smell. It still smells 100% mold/mildew free and, honestly, the freshest air in the house. The air is relatively dry around here in the winter, so I'm not sure 10cfm will be enough when spring comes, but we will see and I will keep this thread updated for people who do searches in the future.

I cannot stress enough what an amazing impact the ERV made on the air quality in my basement. Highly, highly recommend it.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

How much of an electrical cost did you have?

As an update to this thread:

The ERV continues to work amazing magic in my basement. It is honestly the freshest, best smelling air in the house.

I have found a negative though--energy use has gone up. This must be due to the dehumidifier needing to run more frequently as new outside air is introduced constantly. I started with the unit a the max setting, 40cfm. Worked extremely well, so I decided to see if 20cfm would be sufficient. It was, at least in the month of November here on the Cape. So, once I saw my energy bill jump up for October (compared to October 2019), I decided to see if the lowest setting, 10cfm, would be sufficient. I have had it running at 10cfm for about a month now and there is no noticeable degradation in smell. It still smells 100% mold/mildew free and, honestly, the freshest air in the house. The air is relatively dry around here in the winter, so I'm not sure 10cfm will be enough when spring comes, but we will see and I will keep this thread updated for people who do searches in the future.

I cannot stress enough what an amazing impact the ERV made on the air quality in my basement. Highly, highly recommend it.

[capecrusader]

How much of an electrical cost did you have?

as I typed, I knew I should get off my lazy butt and find my electric bill and give you the numbers. Shame on me, but I don't have the bill in front of me and my wife paid Nov/Dec.

From memory, I'm going to say it was $30-$50 increase for the month. Enough to make me notice--we are not there a lot in October so the bill might have gone from $70 to $110 or something. Honestly it is easily easily worth it to me but it was noticeable. Also, no way to know for sure it is due solely or even mostly to the ERV but it makes some sense. What is needed is a few months comparing year over year with actual numbers, not from my memory. Next time a bill comes in I will update this thread with kwh/month comparing Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan year over year.

We had some friends over a couple weeks ago and all the kids were in the basement...went down to make sure they weren't killing each other and my friend commented on how fresh the air smelled (had not bored him with the details, yet). My wife, knowing me and my OCD battle with the basement air quality, just laughed because she knew he was about to get a blow-by-blow.

After my explanation/demo of the system he went home and ordered the same setup for his finished basement.

These things will be ubiquitous in finished basements before too long IMO.

[kdean1]

I find it amusing that a homeowner claims to have learned more from “The Internet” about IAQ and dehumidification in a few weeks or months than Teddy Bear.

[capecrusader]

I find it amusing that a homeowner claims to have learned more from “The Internet” about IAQ and dehumidification in a few weeks or months than Teddy Bear.

Just go back and read how many times he contradicts himself. Now that amuses me Complete and utter nonsense.

You don't need to have a lot of time in an industry to recognize when someone is making stuff up as he goes along . And, while I understand where you're coming from, one of the most important abilities any of us can have is to know when to say "I don't know" or "I'm not sure". Clearly he did not know what he was talking about, that much is objective fact at this point.

It's important for all to remember that common sense is king, and, ultimately, the proof is in the pudding. The emperor has no clothes.

[JehanDM]

Really cool thread I'm learning a lot. I've run into situations like this fairly often.

"If you hate bleach for some reason you can rent (or build: I built both of mine) an industrial strength ozone generator and eliminate the cleaning step one above."

Mikey do you think a basic ducted air-scrubber with ozone would do the trick for something like this? Or is that not enough. You figure if he needs ozone for his basement he might as well duct it in for his whole house while hes at it.

[kdean1]

From what I’ve read, ozone is bad for humans and houses.

[JehanDM]

I've been reading up on them. I figured for this application it might be practical. I'm still trying to figure out how he set up his fresh air. Having a hard time visualizing it through text. Did he just duct the return side of the dehumidifier into the return duct then put in a fresh air intake somewhere off the return? Cape post some pictures next time your out there.

[IndoorAirNerd]

Mikey do you think a basic ducted air-scrubber with ozone would do the trick for something like this? Or is that not enough. You figure if he needs ozone for his basement he might as well duct it in for his whole house while hes at it.

I would recommend NOT using ozone in a home. Ozone is a respiratory irritant and it reacts with other chemicals in a home to create secondary products that are also harmful.

Even if it is only used one time in an unoccupied home at high concentrations, ozone can cause harm to the home by breaking down rubber and soft plastic. In the presence of humidity, it can form hydrogen peroxide and cause bleaching.

Besides, killing mold with a shot of ozone doesn't address the underlying problems that caused it to grow in the first place! Mold will only grow back.

[teddy bear]

And they lived happily ever after!

Homes have more natural infiltration during cold and windy weather. A fresh air chagne in 3-5 hours is common during coldest months of the year. During the mild, calm months of the year when windows are closed, could be a fresh air change in +12 hours. Outside oxygen is 21%. Less than 15% oxygen decreases oxygen in the blood. We do not know all of the long term effects of the various gases in our house air.

I like your "know it all" spunk. May even match mine.

Very interesting.

Keep us posted.

Regards Teddy Bear

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Chlorine probably isn't the best thing for them either. <g>

PHM
--------

From what I’ve read, ozone is bad for humans and houses.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Chlorine probably isn't the best thing for them either. <g>

In keeping with other common household appliances, such as: hairdryers, electric mixers, and fans - any high efficiency EAC will produce trace levels of ozone when they are running. However in the extensive testing of electronic air cleaners performance, both in test chambers and in actual homes, under normal operating conditions, ozone levels measured are in the range of .005 to .020 parts per million - which are well below the indoor safety levels set by the FDA.

Outdoor air is often pretty high in ozone content - sometimes exceeding 0.120 PPM. In general, levels below 0.080 are considered acceptable for outdoors, but the FDA sets a level of 0.050 with a 24 hour a day exposure as the maximum indoor ozone concentration acceptable. And, as I said before; an EAC can be expected to add about 0.005 PPM.

So why not have the cleanest air possible in your home? <g>

PHM
--------

[Kroaler]

I hope im allowed to post here. It isnt marked as AOP. IM curious also how this does.

Everyone keeps repeating to control the humidity below the mold growth point and also get that dew point lower along with finding and eradicating the existing growth.

It seems to me that an air purifier is just masking the problem at this point? Like for example the air was previously at a 6 in smell and you have lowered it to 2. At 6 an air purifier could not keep up but at a 2 it can. Have you not just lowered the problem to the capacity the air purifier can handle and not actually fixed the issue? But at the same time, vapor barriers and such may be a cost prohibitive solution post construction, so maybe this is indeed the best ROI for the problem?

[Poodle Head Mikey]

The air pretty much everywhere is full of molds. If you leave food out it gets moldy, right? The mold didn't just spontaneously generate - it was in the air, landed on the food, found the conditions right for it to grow - so it grew there on the food.

Outside of a NASA grade lab there is never going to be a mold-free environment. All you can do is to discourage the mold, that is already everywhere, from growing. It has been established that mold growth requires a >50% RH.

One benefit that I can think of to the EAC's that I prefer is that they remove molds from the air stream and interference type air filters do not.

What do you mean by: "keep up" and: "not keep up"? Keep up with what?

PHM
-------

I hope im allowed to post here. It isnt marked as AOP. IM curious also how this does.

Everyone keeps repeating to control the humidity below the mold growth point and also get that dew point lower along with finding and eradicating the existing growth.

It seems to me that an air purifier is just masking the problem at this point? Like for example the air was previously at a 6 in smell and you have lowered it to 2. At 6 an air purifier could not keep up but at a 2 it can. Have you not just lowered the problem to the capacity the air purifier can handle and not actually fixed the issue? But at the same time, vapor barriers and such may be a cost prohibitive solution post construction, so maybe this is indeed the best ROI for the problem?

[Kroaler]

My reading failed me. I thought the OP installed a filtration system to correct the issue. I see now that I was mistaken.