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Thread: Second opinion appreciated - 11yr old gas furnace needs replacing?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ang2277 View Post
    Yes we do have CO detectors on each floor including the basement near the furnace. For the upper floors, is it more effective mounted low?
    OSHA Allows us 50 PPM over an 8 hr period, your UL Approved detector will not alarm until 70 PPM for 1 hour! You need a Low Level CO Detectors.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    OSHA Allows us 50 PPM over an 8 hr period, your UL Approved detector will not alarm until 70 PPM for 1 hour! You need a Low Level CO Detectors.
    We have one that detects 30 to 999 PPM. Although we doubt there's really a CO issue because I am the first one to be intolerant of gasses (I get respiratory problems) and I sleep close to a heat vent.

    Don't techs usually have low level CO detectors? We have an appointment for a second opinion, finally!

  3. #23
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    Ang, where are you? I'll snoop a bit and see who the supplier is closest to you.

    AS has an option for stainless steel burners with their LP kit, we always go that way. They can be had separately if yours are getting rusty.

    That's the 80 volt ignitor assuming you still have the old Intell-ignition board. They are upgrading all boards to a relay switched 120V ignitor and providing a new ignitor in the kit.

    We have the same furnace in our office. In 16 years, I've replaced 2 motor modules. Period. Flame sensor hasn't been cleaned, nothing. But not on LP.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Ang, where are you? I'll snoop a bit and see who the supplier is closest to you.

    AS has an option for stainless steel burners with their LP kit, we always go that way. They can be had separately if yours are getting rusty.

    That's the 80 volt ignitor assuming you still have the old Intell-ignition board. They are upgrading all boards to a relay switched 120V ignitor and providing a new ignitor in the kit.

    We have the same furnace in our office. In 16 years, I've replaced 2 motor modules. Period. Flame sensor hasn't been cleaned, nothing. But not on LP.
    Got you beat. I have a TUY in my shop "N" serial number which makes it 20-21 years old. The only thing I have done with it is a Combustion Analysis a couple times when I wanted to test the analyzer.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Ang, where are you? I'll snoop a bit and see who the supplier is closest to you.

    AS has an option for stainless steel burners with their LP kit, we always go that way. They can be had separately if yours are getting rusty.

    That's the 80 volt ignitor assuming you still have the old Intell-ignition board. They are upgrading all boards to a relay switched 120V ignitor and providing a new ignitor in the kit.

    We have the same furnace in our office. In 16 years, I've replaced 2 motor modules. Period. Flame sensor hasn't been cleaned, nothing. But not on LP.
    Got you beat. I have a TUY in my shop "N" serial number which makes it 20-21 years old. The only thing I have done with it is a Combustion Analysis a couple times when I wanted to test the analyzer.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Ang, where are you? I'll snoop a bit and see who the supplier is closest to you.

    AS has an option for stainless steel burners with their LP kit, we always go that way. They can be had separately if yours are getting rusty.

    That's the 80 volt ignitor assuming you still have the old Intell-ignition board. They are upgrading all boards to a relay switched 120V ignitor and providing a new ignitor in the kit.

    We have the same furnace in our office. In 16 years, I've replaced 2 motor modules. Period. Flame sensor hasn't been cleaned, nothing. But not on LP.
    I'm in Hudson Valley, New Paltz to be exact. We went through the American Standard site but there are only a few dealers for our area. We've contacted ComforTech which is supposed to be an authorized company several times but they never called back!

    We did not see that the burners were too rusty - they had some dirty spots on it that the last guy cleaned.

  7. #27
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    Worst case scenario, heat exchanger needs to be replaced under mfg. part warranty. Like the others have said, a far cry from the unit being replaced.

    BTW you can check your warranty on the AmStd. or Trane website. Click HERE for the link. Just need to know the serial number of the furnace and the name it was registered under.
    If it doesn't show up we can look it up for you, we just need the serial number, no name is necessary.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgenius33 View Post
    Worst case scenario, heat exchanger needs to be replaced under mfg. part warranty. Like the others have said, a far cry from the unit being replaced.

    BTW you can check your warranty on the AmStd. or Trane website. Click HERE for the link. Just need to know the serial number of the furnace and the name it was registered under.
    If it doesn't show up we can look it up for you, we just need the serial number, no name is necessary.
    Used your link to find out that my heat exchanger - if that is indeed the problem - is waranteed until year 2107. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

  9. #29
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    It's possible with LP, but I doubt it's the heat exchanger.

    I would be looking at flue gas recirculation, due to faulty concentric flue, or something with the intake?

    Have you had the roof replaced lately? I've seen roofers cut the cap off of concentric kits, pull flue pipes right out of the draft hoods, etc... Mangling them so they could get a new flashing on.

    Hard to say without testing it myself. What ever you do, it's time to ditch the old service company.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgenius33 View Post
    It's possible with LP, but I doubt it's the heat exchanger.

    I would be looking at flue gas recirculation, due to faulty concentric flue, or something with the intake?

    Have you had the roof replaced lately? I've seen roofers cut the cap off of concentric kits, pull flue pipes right out of the draft hoods, etc... Mangling them so they could get a new flashing on.

    Hard to say without testing it myself. What ever you do, it's time to ditch the old service company.
    The roof, ducts & venting was all done during the same year as the furnace install in 2008. I wonder if it's possible there's an obstruction somewhere? I'll be sure to mention it to the new tech. The previous 2 companies were not at all interested in looking beyond the furnace flame sensor and igniter even when we mentioned we wanted them to look at the airflow.

  11. #31
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    When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail!

  12. #32
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    Followup: We finally found and contacted a very reputable company which is slightly outside of our service area but they were willing to give us a second opinion/diagnostics. They were very thorough and performed combustion/CO tests and made some minor adjustments/cleanings that seem to smooth out the ignition process. But the main result of the diagnostics was that they deemed our furnace in good shape and no need for replacement of heat exchanger as the previous diagnosis. And they didn't try to sell us anything.

    The difference between these guys and the previous 2 companies' techs were night and day. These guys also seemed to be really interested in solving the problem. Lessons learned on what to look for in techs and their capabilities.

    Thank you good folks who were kind enough to weigh in. You were very helpful - I can't thank you enough!

  13. #33
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    For a contractor like that paying a little more is well worth it! Glad it worked out.

  14. #34
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    Glad to hear you found a good company and ended up with good results.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Glad to hear you found a good company and ended up with good results.
    2 days after the fix - and the last company was super thorough - the same issue of 3 tries of trying to fire up and then lockout - happened again. Maybe time to replace control board?!? I've recorded it not working since it never seems to malfunction when techs are here in person. The only thing of note the tech said was strange was low gas pressure, which would require that I call the gas company again (they were the ones who pressured us for a new furnace),

    It's a mystery that no one seems to be able to solve yet.

  16. #36
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    I don't understand. If low gas pressure was seen why didn't they raise it to the appropriate level? Normally there is more gas pressure than needed coming into the unit then the gas valve has an adjustment to get it down to the proper level. Low gas pressure if low enough will cause a furnace not to lite properly.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    I don't understand. If low gas pressure was seen why didn't they raise it to the appropriate level? Normally there is more gas pressure than needed coming into the unit then the gas valve has an adjustment to get it down to the proper level. Low gas pressure if low enough will cause a furnace not to lite properly.
    The out of area tech raised the pressure to the furnace as much as possible but said the pressure was still unusually low. The issue we suspect seems to be with the gas line or the primary regulator from the LP tank, which is serviced by the propane company that overcharged us and is trying to get us to buy a new furnace from them. That regulator looks really old, while the secondary regulator next to our house was installed in 2008.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    I don't understand. If low gas pressure was seen why didn't they raise it to the appropriate level? Normally there is more gas pressure than needed coming into the unit then the gas valve has an adjustment to get it down to the proper level. Low gas pressure if low enough will cause a furnace not to lite properly.
    Also our propane stovetop burners at medium heat seem to be flickering onstantly and we can't seem to get the max heat as high as we used to. I would think it's related to the same low gas pressure issue?

  19. #39
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    It sounds like you have a 2 stg regulator set up. Usually the primary (red) regulator at the tank is non adjustable and drops the pressure to about 5 lb then the one at the house will drop it to working pressure for the house. If the primary does not maintain pressure then the secondary will be wrong also.

    What all do you have on LP? Furnace, range, maybe a water heater? I would try turning the stove on then turn on one of the other appliances preferably not the furnace as it will only try for 4 seconds which isn't much time. Anyway watch the flame on the stove. If it seems to shrink that would indicate one or both of the regulators is not functioning properly as the drop in pressure would cause the flame to shrink. If you observe this you have proof for the LP company that their regulator(s) are bad.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    It sounds like you have a 2 stg regulator set up. Usually the primary (red) regulator at the tank is non adjustable and drops the pressure to about 5 lb then the one at the house will drop it to working pressure for the house. If the primary does not maintain pressure then the secondary will be wrong also.

    What all do you have on LP? Furnace, range, maybe a water heater? I would try turning the stove on then turn on one of the other appliances preferably not the furnace as it will only try for 4 seconds which isn't much time. Anyway watch the flame on the stove. If it seems to shrink that would indicate one or both of the regulators is not functioning properly as the drop in pressure would cause the flame to shrink. If you observe this you have proof for the LP company that their regulator(s) are bad.
    You are correct - the red regulator is on the tank and the secondary green one outside the house. We have the furnace, on-demand water heater and the stove on propane. The burners seem to flicker and shrink slightly when I turn on the hot water, but not dramatically. Lately, our Wolf stove burners aren't producing large flames even at the highest setting. I now realize this started about the time the furnace was having problems but did not make a connection between the two at the time.

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