The official 'I want an I-DRSA' thread...

[Txvman]

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....digital-gauges
you should read post# 629-630,,,, you won't get that kind of service from a POS chevy dealer

My personal experience with Testo has been very positive, even when I dropped them from 10' and cracked the screen.

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[Doug Lockhart]

Maybe Doug can elaborate more but I think the total price would be below $2k.

Yup, but with the 15-20 sensors, it'd be more than $2G obviously.

[Doug Lockhart]

Amazing....

Everyone wants a Mercedes AMG...

But they think they should have it for the price of a Chevy Equinox...

NOT gonna happen... and it should not.

Quality always costs...

And the folks that want it... find a way to pay for it.

GA, it's the nature with reefer mechanics all over.......we want to be paid $100/hr but we want to pack under $5000 worth of tools....whereas the automotive trade updates their equipment EVERY TIME the Snap-On truck comes around and a 2 or 3rd year mechanic has over $60G in his two roller cabinets.........and we'll slam a customer for being a cheap $#^$@.!!!

Once they do put on a decent uniform, ask for $125/hr, appear in the driveway with a neat, clean van/truck and at the door neat, clean, professional and courteous with the mitt full of tools and instruments.......voila, we get paid as such.......rather than "Nope, ain't going to do that".!!!!!

[Doug Lockhart]

My personal experience with Testo has been very positive, even when I dropped them from 10' and cracked the screen.



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Only 10' heh?!.......how are they with a rainstorm on the Rooftop TXV?

[ga-hvac-tech]

GA, it's the nature with reefer mechanics all over.......we want to be paid $100/hr but we want to pack under $5000 worth of tools....whereas the automotive trade updates their equipment EVERY TIME the Snap-On truck comes around and a 2 or 3rd year mechanic has over $60G in his two roller cabinets.........and we'll slam a customer for being a cheap $#^$@.!!!

Once they do put on a decent uniform, ask for $125/hr, appear in the driveway with a neat, clean van/truck and at the door neat, clean, professional and courteous with the mitt full of tools and instruments.......voila, we get paid as such.......rather than "Nope, ain't going to do that".!!!!!

Come on Doug...

Who was it that complained on and on and on about how the HVAC/R guys would not pay a fair price for your DC 1250...
So you quit with American made and went to Chinese made (the AK900)... and sold a bunch of them.

IMO it may be current BS expectations to want the world for a song...
However even you Doug... griped about that very expectation back when.

Sorry guy...
Just calling it like I see it.

There is plenty for everyone...
However having the expectation of getting stuff for nothing... is not realistic.
And thinking the only way one can get ahead... is to tread on their fellow man (take advantage of them, subvertly rob them of their privacy, etc)...
MATURE folks understand better...
Greedy folks have not yet learned.

[Txvman]

Only 10' heh?!.......how are they with a rainstorm on the Rooftop TXV?

OK, maybe 15' if I include my height. If it rains that hard I pack up and leave. Fortunately I'm a supermarket tech.

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[Brent Ridley]

OK, maybe 15' if I include my height. If it rains that hard I pack up and leave. Fortunately I'm a supermarket tech.

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This isn't a comparison thread. Take that to the other 5000 digital gauge threads on here.

Comparing the iDRSA to the Testo 550 is like comparing a calculator to a computer. It's not even the same type of device.

[Txvman]

This isn't a comparison thread. Take that to the other 5000 digital gauge threads on here.

Comparing the iDRSA to the Testo 550 is like comparing a calculator to a computer. It's not even the same type of device.

That's fine, I wasn't comparing. I chose Chevy over Mercedes and am happy I did. BTW, why are you ”following" me? Your not a troll are you?

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[vin lashon]

Were these temp straps originally offered with the DCs?

[Brent Ridley]

That's fine, I wasn't comparing. I chose Chevy over Mercedes and am happy I did. BTW, why are you ”following" me? Your not a troll are you?

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I'm the furthest thing from a troll.

I think I looked at your profile and mistakenly hit the "follow" button. I fixed that.

Technology is changing. We all are soon going to be forced to look past just SH/SC. The iDRSA will help us make that leap.

[Doug Lockhart]

Come on Doug...

Who was it that complained on and on and on about how the HVAC/R guys would not pay a fair price for your DC 1250...
So you quit with American made and went to Chinese made (the AK900)... and sold a bunch of them.

IMO it may be current BS expectations to want the world for a song...
However even you Doug... griped about that very expectation back when.

Sorry guy...
Just calling it like I see it.

There is plenty for everyone...
However having the expectation of getting stuff for nothing... is not realistic.
And thinking the only way one can get ahead... is to tread on their fellow man (take advantage of them, subvertly rob them of their privacy, etc)...
MATURE folks understand better...
Greedy folks have not yet learned.

I'm not arguing with you GA.......I'm agreeing with you........slow down AGAIN.....
FYI, Brenda and I shut down the HVAC/R company for a week and went to Taiwan, not China, and visited the plant and offices for 5 days to ensure the place we built treated the staff properly WRT safety, wages and working conditions. If we didn't do that, we would have bankrupted the company as we were the only ones building in North America and would not have ever built the 900, that was what the trip was for. We snuck up to the 4th floor of the assembly center and guys, they had full Niederman solder hoods, full Chroma fluorescent lighting and Water to Water heat pumps keeping it at a cool 22 degC in the assembly line while they were sitting on 5 way adjustable chairs.......better than we had on any site I've been on.
As far as a selling a bunch........like I told you before GA.......if you did 50 service calls a year......that'd be a bunch......did it pay the overhead, AP, vehicle expenses, decent wages etc, etc......NO, it paid the cost of goods and shipping (LIDL paid the overhead) and we buried all/any profit back into the product R&D.

[Doug Lockhart]

Were these temp straps originally offered with the DCs?

Yes.....still in stock (they're the ones I personally like to use) Part# AKTRV

[ga-hvac-tech]

I'm not arguing with you GA.......I'm agreeing with you........slow down AGAIN.....
FYI, Brenda and I shut down the HVAC/R company for a week and went to Taiwan, not China, and visited the plant and offices for 5 days to ensure the place we built treated the staff properly WRT safety, wages and working conditions. If we didn't do that, we would have bankrupted the company as we were the only ones building in North America and would not have ever built the 900, that was what the trip was for. We snuck up to the 4th floor of the assembly center and guys, they had full Niederman solder hoods, full Chroma fluorescent lighting and Water to Water heat pumps keeping it at a cool 22 degC in the assembly line while they were sitting on 5 way adjustable chairs.......better than we had on any site I've been on.
As far as a selling a bunch........like I told you before GA.......if you did 50 service calls a year......that'd be a bunch......did it pay the overhead, AP, vehicle expenses, decent wages etc, etc......NO, it paid the cost of goods and shipping (LIDL paid the overhead) and we buried all/any profit back into the product R&D.

That is not the way I remember the story Doug...

Seems I remember someone complaining the folks in the industry would not pay a fair price for your American made units... so you had to go to China.

Sorry Doug...

As I said...
Just telling it like I see it.

Funny thing about life:
When a person gets away with something... they feel pretty cool.
However when that same person calls someone else out for doing the same thing... well that is NOT cool.

Just calling it like I see it guy.

Regardless...
You brought us the AK900... we all appreciated that!
It is arguably the best digital gauge head ever made...

Might be best to keep that image...

[Doug Lockhart]

That is not the way I remember the story Doug...

Seems I remember someone complaining the folks in the industry would not pay a fair price for your American made units... so you had to go to China.

Sorry Doug...

As I said...
Just telling it like I see it.

Funny thing about life:
When a person gets away with something... they feel pretty cool.
However when that same person calls someone else out for doing the same thing... well that is NOT cool.

Just calling it like I see it guy.

Regardless...
You brought us the AK900... we all appreciated that!
It is arguably the best digital gauge head ever made...

Might be best to keep that image...

Do you always try to start a pissing match GA?

I did say back then (2011-2012) that if we didn't build a 'low cost' unit we would bankrupt the company with all the 'open transducer' inaccurate 1 week life expectancy refco and mastercrapp units coming out so we went to TAIWAN GA NOT China. Brenda and I NEVER EVER hid that GA, EVER,!!!! FCS, read the last post and if you ever were on HVACPROTechTalk you'd also see that.
If you are calling it like you see it.....open your eyes sunshine.....your frickin blind!!!!

[Txvman]

I'm the furthest thing from a troll.

I think I looked at your profile and mistakenly hit the "follow" button. I fixed that.

Technology is changing. We all are soon going to be forced to look past just SH/SC. The iDRSA will help us make that leap.

Thank you for fixing that, you had me worried for a moment there.

Regardless of the technology of how it's controlled or how values are measured a refrigeration system still works the same way. It's still sh/sc/wb/db/delta t/cfm etc.

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[mgenius33]

Do you always try to start a pissing match GA?

I did say back then (2011-2012) that if we didn't build a 'low cost' unit we would bankrupt the company with all the 'open transducer' inaccurate 1 week life expectancy refco and mastercrapp units coming out so we went to TAIWAN GA NOT China. Brenda and I NEVER EVER hid that GA, EVER,!!!! FCS, read the last post and if you ever were on HVACPROTechTalk you'd also see that.
If you are calling it like you see it.....open your eyes sunshine.....your frickin blind!!!!

Ok, now I'm really confused, first GA was light-heartedly condemning folks that didn't want to pay for higher quality tools, and I somewhat agree with his statements, I just don't feel this particular product qualifies in my wheelhouse of necessary products to promote my services at this time. In the future, maybe so.

Then we have Doug's words, which I'm almost taking as if I'm a cheapskate because I'm not buying his product. Hmmm?

Now, we have both GA and Doug conflicting views? I'm not sure where this thread is going, maybe we should start over, no?

Sorry if this is not the intention of either of your statements, but I just want you to know how one viewer is reading them.

[Doug Lockhart]

Ok, now I'm really confused, first GA was light-heartedly condemning folks that didn't want to pay for higher quality tools, and I somewhat agree with his statements, I just don't feel this particular product qualifies in my wheelhouse of necessary products to promote my services at this time. In the future, maybe so.

Then we have Doug's words, which I'm almost taking as if I'm a cheapskate because I'm not buying his product. Hmmm?

Now, we have both GA and Doug conflicting views? I'm not sure where this thread is going, maybe we should start over, no?

Sorry if this is not the intention of either of your statements, but I just want you to know how one viewer is reading them.

I agree mgenius on all your points as well as I DO point the stick at US for being cheapskates……WE are! We want a good living and we want to take the 'easier softer way' but there IS NOT one rule for us in the advancement of our personal wealth and careers and then another rule for investing in it……IMHO. As my mother used to beat into me as a child and adolescent……"you get back in double portions what you put out in life".
I had every freakin' company building gauges and tools for 13 years approach Brenda and I about building for them. They wanted a $100 retail ($25 to them) digital manifold and features out the ying yang. We couldn't give that to them the same way you guys can't work for $15/service call so for 13 years we 'tried and tried' to do it on our own while I was working 10+ hours a day in my HVAC/R business. I had naively figures AFTER we got everyone on a 900 and they could see what we could do……they'd wholesale adopt the iDRSA platform and then we turn the trade into a sophisticated group that vastly bettered the trade and made 2-3X their present income and with their minds and not their backs…….I was wrong as the companies giving it to you couldn't give a $hit…….they ONLY wanted to make money…..not build an industry for all of our sakes…..stupid me.
Now, if you think I'm calling you a 'cheapskate', I am, just like virtually EVERY OTHER human on the planet is now in a lifestyle where, unlike our parents and grandparents, we don't feel we need to pay a fair price for anything. It's not fair, respectful and eventually we get it back in double portions with no one in our own countries are employed anymore as we get all our sh!t from Asia and wonder why the people hiring us are commodotizing US TOO.
Now if we can get past the 'hurting of feelings' and get to the real need to 'help ourselves' get to a better place in life not only for us but for our children that learn by our example and not by hollow words, that is why I revisited the iDRSA again. If you'd like me or iwhoever to pull this tool out of our a$$ for $109, then I'm gone. It's going to take a crapload of work from me and ??? plus a wheelbarrow full of money and we could have a whole new way of doing business from a BP I haven't revealed 100% of as it's proprietary (and maybe that's the problem and I should…..but after being raped by XXX companies for 13 years, I'm trying not to be so stupidly trustful) technology and what we could do.
At some point we have to realize it's a partnership but look at how the HVAC manufacturers have commodotized us in the last decade……we're @$^%ing 'box sellers' ….. nothing else. They don't care either about anything but their bottom line and dealers are not supported dealers anymore…..box sellers.

I was hoping for maybe too much……but along with calling us in the HVACR trade cheapskates, call me naive, stupid and too hopeful from a guy that's been that way for 41 years as a 'stupidly' passionate HVACR tech…….and likely will be that way 'till I die but that's MY choice as you all have your own choices on how you approach this.

[mgenius33]

I agree mgenius on all your points as well as I DO point the stick at US for being cheapskates……WE are! We want a good living and we want to take the 'easier softer way' but there IS NOT one rule for us in the advancement of our personal wealth and careers and then another rule for investing in it……IMHO. As my mother used to beat into me as a child and adolescent……"you get back in double portions what you put out in life".
I had every freakin' company building gauges and tools for 13 years approach Brenda and I about building for them. They wanted a $100 retail ($25 to them) digital manifold and features out the ying yang. We couldn't give that to them the same way you guys can't work for $15/service call so for 13 years we 'tried and tried' to do it on our own while I was working 10+ hours a day in my HVAC/R business. I had naively figures AFTER we got everyone on a 900 and they could see what we could do……they'd wholesale adopt the iDRSA platform and then we turn the trade into a sophisticated group that vastly bettered the trade and made 2-3X their present income and with their minds and not their backs…….I was wrong as the companies giving it to you couldn't give a $hit…….they ONLY wanted to make money…..not build an industry for all of our sakes…..stupid me.
Now, if you think I'm calling you a 'cheapskate', I am, just like virtually EVERY OTHER human on the planet is now in a lifestyle where, unlike our parents and grandparents, we don't feel we need to pay a fair price for anything. It's not fair, respectful and eventually we get it back in double portions with no one in our own countries are employed anymore as we get all our sh!t from Asia and wonder why the people hiring us are commodotizing US TOO.
Now if we can get past the 'hurting of feelings' and get to the real need to 'help ourselves' get to a better place in life not only for us but for our children that learn by our example and not by hollow words, that is why I revisited the iDRSA again. If you'd like me or iwhoever to pull this tool out of our a$$ for $109, then I'm gone. It's going to take a crapload of work from me and ??? plus a wheelbarrow full of money and we could have a whole new way of doing business from a BP I haven't revealed 100% of as it's proprietary (and maybe that's the problem and I should…..but after being raped by XXX companies for 13 years, I'm trying not to be so stupidly trustful) technology and what we could do.
At some point we have to realize it's a partnership but look at how the HVAC manufacturers have commodotized us in the last decade……we're @$^%ing 'box sellers' ….. nothing else. They don't care either about anything but their bottom line and dealers are not supported dealers anymore…..box sellers.

I was hoping for maybe too much……but along with calling us in the HVACR trade cheapskates, call me naive, stupid and too hopeful from a guy that's been that way for 41 years as a 'stupidly' passionate HVACR tech…….and likely will be that way 'till I die but that's MY choice as you all have your own choices on how you approach this.

First there's no hurt feeling. As you well know, if you're in this trade, or any trade long enough, you develop a thick skin, both literally and figuratively. Working with sheet metal for many years has provided my fingers less opportunity to bleed.

Second, I don't recall saying that your product is not worth the price tag. As far as techs go, on average, most of the guys on this site likely spend double on high quality tools than their workmates that go home everyday and forget all together about HVAC. I would love to buy a product like you're offering, but there are many tools one could purchase, and just because we choose to allocate our budget elsewhere doesn't make us cheap.

I typically reach for the more expensive brand 90% of the time, but not before careful consideration for what I'm getting. As you've stated, many mfg's have subbed out to China, but that doesn't always mean the lowest of quality. I do understand you get what you pay for, product R&D, and quality control cost money. At this point however, my pennies would be better spent toward a highly valuable machine.

Being liberal with $ will send us to the poor house and result in fellow citizens bailing us out by way of bankruptcy. Or an argumentative household due to a lack monetary judgement. That's not advisable either.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, there's a fine line between cheap and sensible. Cheap guys buy all of their tools from Harbor Freight, and ***** when their hand snips break. Sensible guys save, and wait until they can buy the next most important item on their wish list. The order of this list is the "value" which I am referring to, not the price tag of a particular item.

[Doug Lockhart]

First there's no hurt feeling. As you well know, if you're in this trade, or any trade long enough, you develop a thick skin, both literally and figuratively. Working with sheet metal for many years has provided my fingers less opportunity to bleed.

Second, I don't recall saying that your product is not worth the price tag. As far as techs go, on average, most of the guys on this site likely spend double on high quality tools than their workmates that go home everyday and forget all together about HVAC. I would love to buy a product like you're offering, but there are many tools one could purchase, and just because we choose to allocate our budget elsewhere doesn't make us cheap.

I typically reach for the more expensive brand 90% of the time, but not before careful consideration for what I'm getting. As you've stated, many mfg's have subbed out to China, but that doesn't always mean the lowest of quality. I do understand you get what you pay for, product R&D, and quality control cost money. At this point however, my pennies would be better spent toward a highly valuable machine.

Being liberal with $ will send us to the poor house and result in fellow citizens bailing us out by way of bankruptcy. Or an argumentative household due to a lack monetary judgement. That's not advisable either.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, there's a fine line between cheap and sensible. Cheap guys buy all of their tools from Harbor Freight, and ***** when their hand snips break. Sensible guys save, and wait until they can buy the next most important item on their wish list. The order of this list is the "value" which I am referring to, not the price tag of a particular item.

The trick is, how do we get NA back to 'considering value' instead of price. I sell predominantly GeoExchange systems that I couple with the ocean.......I've never had such a hard time getting customers to 'see the value' as in the last 2 years particularly. Not easy after you guys got burnt by iManifold and then I come along whining about having the idea pulled out from my portfolio and wanting to 'do it again'.

I just wish, however, we'd get away from the 'Survivor' and 'Big Brother' show type mentality of putting 'winning' at the top of our priorities. Some days I win by losing. My greatest failures have led to my greatest triumphs. Giving away a service call has NEVER EVER left me wanting......but I've sure reaped the benefits later from, in many cases, what I thought was a complete stranger who informed me of their knowledge of my honesty and integrity. The older I get, the more fulfilling and valuable that is.........which is 1/2 the story as invariably, I then wind up with a huge job/lucrative opportunity that was tied into that 'act'.......

Call me old fashioned, naive and stupid but Brenda and I chose to run our lives like that.........now if I could just have a lot more patience for the other 99% of the customers.....

HAPPY FATHER'S DAY GUYS........being fathers is why we do all this stuff!!!!

[mgenius33]

I agree, that's the most difficult part. Finding value, and differentiating yourself from the rest. You're absolutely right, most Americans today want cheap, get cheap, and then b*&tch about when it fails to perform.

How would I sell a set of $2k refrigerant gauges? Well, some like flashy new stuff, those guys are easy. Some guys won't buy them no matter what you say because price is the determining factor. All of the demographic in between have to be convinced that they will turn a profit in order to purchase such an expensive piece of equipment.

So, evacuation micron gauges aren't cheap. The cheap ones aren't reliable, and we have to second guess them constantly. This takes A LOT of time out of a techs day. I would pitch accuracy, repeatability, and reliability. Wouldn't it be nice to pop in several probes, wait 10 minutes and then have reliable information you can TRUST is accurate.

You're right too many techs are burned by overreaching product sales pitches that promise accuracy, but fall far short. They spend big $$ and then a month later they go back to the old reliable tool, that they've used and trusted for years. Why, too much second guessing the tool. Time and money are wasted. So, they already know and are comfortable with the time that they've grown accustomed to with "ol' reliable.

I've been pitching very detailed maintenance plans with logged data that can be used for trending analysis, but nobody cares? Why? You'd think Joe homeowner would jump at a maintenance that provides 100x the information for $20 more compared to the next HVAC company, but they don't. They don't want to understand, they just want you to fix the problem so they have their 'ol reliable" AC back. You know the old oversized Whirlpool unit that made the house cold at 60% RH 70°. They don't care that it would be more comfortable at 48% and 76°. Why? Maybe if you could help me with that question, I would be sold.