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Thread: BACRouter from China

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    Little more on the BACRouter modbus function; I deleted my device and started over. This time it is working and showing value updates from modbus on the BACnet side.
    All configuration done is only on client side of WebUI, until save&restart, maybe it's the reason? i will check again.

    Mapping a point as BACnet AO grays out the field for Discrete(1x) registers. If anything I would think that behavior would be expected on AI due to the read only nature?

    Holding Registers – 16-bit (Analog) addresses with read/write access (4xxxxx) / allow map to bacnet BI or BO
    Internal Registers – 16-bit (Analog) addresses with read only access (3xxxxx) / map to bacnet BI
    Input Coils – 1-bit (Boolean) addresses with read only access (1xxxxx) / map to bacnet AI
    Output Coils – 1-bit (Boolean) addresses with read/write access (0xxxxx) / map to bacnet AI or AO
    Some vendors put read only data on Holding Register (or Coils?), so mapping AI or BI to holding register is allowed.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    You could add an "add" button on the test page. Workflow would be you add in the point details to test, test it to make sure it works and then hit add to put that in your device points. Would prevent having to do all that twice.
    That is a great idea!

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    If you hit edit on a newly created point, would be nice to have enabled already checked. If your editing, more often than not it’s to enable it.

    When using Modbus functions 3 & 4, would rather it default to U16 rather than S16 since unsigned is far more common.
    Agree

    Would also add some way to copy a device in the webui. Most of the time there are a wad of identical devices. Setting up the first is painful enough no matter what. Being able to easily copy that work is a huge time saver. Copy, paste, change the slave address, done.
    Good idea, it's easier than export/import to copy device.

  4. #164
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    Do you want AV/BV/MSV? I know siemens desigo CC license is free on these points.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by lin View Post
    Do you want AV/BV/MSV? I know siemens desigo CC license is free on these points.
    Seems like that's a good idea just for the desigo folks. Could use nothing but and flip the bird to licensing fees.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  6. #166
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    til siemens locks that down too, but might as well take it while you can.

  7. #167
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    I ran into the point not available issue again. Point is submitted and I don't see anything else I need to do, these screenshots taken while it is in this state. I read the point explicitly as AI:1000 and by name "float", neither worked. Did a save & reboot on the BACRouter and both work fine after.

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  8. #168
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    Is there such a thing as a COV subscription for property reliability or do subscriptions only work for present value? Don't think I've ever thought about that before.

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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    Is there such a thing as a COV subscription for property reliability or do subscriptions only work for present value? Don't think I've ever thought about that before.
    BACnet has two types of COV subscription services: SubscribeCOV and SubscribeCOVProperty.

    SubscribeCOV is the most commonly used and the properties reported are predefined by the spec, based on the object type. For the typical objects like Analogs, Binaries, Multi-states, etc. the properties reported are Present_Value and Status_Flags. A COV notification is sent by the device if either of those properties change (of course for Analogs, the Present_Value must change by at least the COV_Increment).

    SubscribeCOVProperty allows monitoring properties other than those predefined by the spec for the SubscribeCOV service.

    So to subscribe to COV of the Reliability property, the server device would need to support the SubscribeCOVProperty service, and would also need to support subscribing to the Reliability property.

    Although, it is worth noting that the Status_Flags property (reported using the standard SubscribeCOV service) does contain a FAULT flag which will be set if the Reliability property is present and does not have a value of NO_FAULT_DETECTED.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by jschulze View Post
    BACnet has two types of COV subscription services: SubscribeCOV and SubscribeCOVProperty.

    SubscribeCOV is the most commonly used and the properties reported are predefined by the spec, based on the object type. For the typical objects like Analogs, Binaries, Multi-states, etc. the properties reported are Present_Value and Status_Flags. A COV notification is sent by the device if either of those properties change (of course for Analogs, the Present_Value must change by at least the COV_Increment).

    SubscribeCOVProperty allows monitoring properties other than those predefined by the spec for the SubscribeCOV service.

    So to subscribe to COV of the Reliability property, the server device would need to support the SubscribeCOVProperty service, and would also need to support subscribing to the Reliability property.

    Although, it is worth noting that the Status_Flags property (reported using the standard SubscribeCOV service) does contain a FAULT flag which will be set if the Reliability property is present and does not have a value of NO_FAULT_DETECTED.
    Really good info, thanks. I just don't have to deal with this much, ALC switches automatically based on what it sees. What I don't know is if it will request a COV for these properties or if it just falls back to polling.

  11. #171
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    Thank you all for valuable feedbacks.
    We had a very busy month to refactor most codes for modbus, now come back with new version:

    http://www.hvacrcontrol.com/bacnet-router-changelog/

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  13. #172
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    After applying the updated firmware I received the message "the config has some problems, please check carefuly". Can we get an idea on what to check in that error message?

    In the modbus section my points and devices were disabled (line through them). Each point in edit was already enabled but after saving it the line through it went away, literally just hit edit and then submit to "fix".

    Float byte order was lost in the upgrade. Took me a second to find the float byte order selection too, now per device rather than per point. Problem; changing byte order doesn't enable the submit button. I had to toggle something else on the page to enable the submit button.

    Noticed the new engineering units selection is MUCH better, really easy now.

    BACnet troubles;

    After upgrade my Automated Logic LGR absolutely refused to bind to the points by point name. "bacnet://241001/temp" used to work but I had to change it to "bacnet://241001/AO:1000" to get it to bind now for example. Error shown was 13 Waiting for I-Have Object and never progressed beyond that.

    Also the discovery inside WebCTRL was really inconsistent for this device, this is four in a row, each with different results. I believe ALC uses Read Property Multiple, based on the speed and I never got a message that it had to fall back to polling each point.

    Discovery1
    Found testtemperature
    Found temp
    Found modbus_master|Master|LGR|comm|online
    Found ss
    Found capture_bufsize_0
    Found capture_cmd_0
    Found capture_bufsize_1
    Found capture_cmd_1
    Found capture_control
    Found modbus_master|
    Found testLGR
    Done in 0 seconds.

    Discovery2
    Found capture_cmd_0
    Found capture_bufsize_1
    Found capture_cmd_1
    Found capture_control
    Found modbus_master|
    Found testLGR
    Done in 0 seconds.

    Discovery3
    Found modbus_master|Master|LGR|comm|online
    Found ss
    Found capture_bufsize_0
    Found capture_cmd_0
    Found capture_bufsize_1
    Found capture_cmd_1
    Found capture_control
    Found modbus_master|
    Found testLGR
    Done in 0 seconds.

    Discovery4
    Found capture_bufsize_0
    Found capture_cmd_0
    Found capture_bufsize_1
    Found capture_cmd_1
    Found capture_control
    Found modbus_master|
    Found testLGR
    Done in 0 seconds.

  14. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    After applying the updated firmware I received the message "the config has some problems, please check carefuly". Can we get an idea on what to check in that error message?
    There are too many checks, we will refactor it to promote user a message about the error and give user choice to promote more or ignore.

    Problem; changing byte order doesn't enable the submit button. I had to toggle something else on the page to enable the submit button.
    Thank you, that is a bug.

    After upgrade my Automated Logic LGR absolutely refused to bind to the points by point name. "bacnet://241001/temp" used to work but I had to change it to "bacnet://241001/AO:1000" to get it to bind now for example. Error shown was 13 Waiting for I-Have Object and never progressed beyond that.
    To avoid name collision and easy the binding to integration software, some users in China suggest another schema, they usually maps thousands to dozens of thousands modbus points, so keep the name comprehensible is important.

    The schema is when in single device mapping mode, the actual object name is "modbus_master|master_name|slave_name|object_name" , very long but no problem for integration software.
    In virtual device mapping mode, the actual modbus device name is "modbus_master|master_name|slave_name", the point name is the same as defined.

    Maybe that cause WebCTRL fail to discover objects?

  15. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    After applying the updated firmware I received the message "the config has some problems, please check carefuly". Can we get an idea on what to check in that error message?

    In the modbus section my points and devices were disabled (line through them).
    Ditto. Been ignoring the error, my modbus test device was disabled as well. Have to assume it was the modbus config in this case with all the changes. Noticed the daemon was not running on the system page after that error. Just save & reboot and it that was running. Haven't tested anything yet.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  16. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by lin View Post
    actual object name is "modbus_master|master_name|slave_name|object_name" ,
    the actual modbus device name is "modbus_master|master_name|slave_name",
    As you can see from the discoveries I'm showing I'm not seeing names like that, so I'd say maybe that is part of the problem. I'll also mention that the discovery text capture I'm posting is the WebCTRL software itself and the module point binding problem is wholly done in the module itself, has nothing to do with the server. So they both are having trouble with this.

    If I do a discovery in BQT from polarsoft I get a very different story.
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    So now armed with that information let's put the name BQT saw into the module and see if it can handle it.

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    I was thinking the pipe symbol would be invalid but nope, the module liked that name.


    More thoughts;

    In the previous firmware I saw a point name prefix that would sort of do the above naming but in this current firmware the slave name and description does not show up in object name after clicking the new object button. That's part of the issue here, I didn't know what was going on with the real object names in the background. Could you populate the object name with all the above master/device naming info? It doesn't need to be editable but it would really drive home what the final point names you will see on BACnet will be.

  17. #176
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    Little more; the | delimiter appears to be a problem for WebCTRL discovery. Just not liking that at all, rarely even shows the configured points in BACRouter and when it does it doesn't have any | listed or any of the naming prefix, just the last part point name "ss" or "temp" for example. Probably something they are doing with parsing names internally etc.

    The ALC module seems OK with it. What the module is not OK with is the amount of characters in the name string. Where can I edit the prefix "modbus_master", it uses up a lot of characters and I've got a limitation for point naming?

    Edit; maybe you could delete it entirely? Is that necessary? Change from "modbus_master|master_name|slave_name" to "master_name|slave_name"

    Edit2; I know somewhere I've seen a valid character list for BACnet. I found it when I was dealing with niagara and niagara likes to use a period . for a delimiter which ALC modules don't like at all.

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  18. #177
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    It seems "|" is not a good choice, How about "." ? but I am afraid that it may be used in normal object name.

    I am considering adding a edit box for "modbus_master" prefix on Modbus Setting page.
    "master_name|slave_name" is more clean i think.

  19. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by lin View Post
    It seems "|" is not a good choice, How about "." ? but I am afraid that it may be used in normal object name.
    Niagara specifically uses "." for a delimiter in their auto folder naming scheme for exposed BACnet points and it's not compatible with WebCTRL modules at all. I always need to go in and rename those points. Please don't use that!

    I need to spend some time looking for what is valid BACnet point name characters, some of this is just broken in ALC stuff and I need to get them to fix that. I'm afraid it would take them literal years to fix this stuff though, even if I can get through to the right person.

    Quote Originally Posted by lin View Post
    I am considering adding a edit box for "modbus_master" prefix on Modbus Setting page.
    "master_name|slave_name" is more clean i think.
    "master_name|slave_name" shorter and with pipe works for me. "modbus_master" might only be necessary if there were other languages involved but you could handle that in the master_name portion anyway so to me personally seems not to be needed.

  20. #179
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    Nice update Lin.

    Like the copy buttons, much easier to duplicate things.
    Didn't catch the test button in the point setup. Another slick feature.

    Like the BACnet points for the comms fail rate, online/offline station per slave device.

    Any plans to add the capture functions of the BACnet side to handle Modbus?
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  21. #180
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    I am working on a version that oragnize object name as "master_name|slave_name|object_name", the name delimiter is user select-able.

    Orion,
    Currently i have no plan for the modbus packet capture. but it may take not too much resource to implement it. do you thank it will hep much on diagnosing problem?
    Carrier CCN Modbus/BACnet gateway
    BACnet router for BIP, MS/TP, Ethernet
    http://www.hvacrcontrol.com/?lang=en

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