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Thread: Vetting Replacement HVAC proposals

  1. #1
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    Confused Vetting Replacement HVAC proposals

    Hi,

    We have received four proposals to replace our 20 year old Lennox system that provides heating/cooling to our first floor. It has had many problems in the 4 years we have lived in this house and it is time to replace it. As you will see the proposals have varying degrees of information, pricing and each proposed a different manufacturer. We plan to stay in this home for 10-15 years. We live in Southeastern PA.

    We would really appreciate your feedback on the proposal that will provide our family with the best value as well as input on the manufacturers (but assume this will be part of the value discussion). Also, only a few of the proposals reference manufacturer warranties.

    Here are the proposals received. All are reputable firms in the area:

    A: $
    • 1-Trane TUH1C100A9H41 “XT-95” X-13 natural gas fired furnace rated at 100,000 btu/hr with an A.F.U.E. rating of 95.0%
    • 1-Trane 4TTR6048 “XR-16” 4.0 ton 15.50 S.E.E.R. central air conditioner with R410A refrigerant
    • 1 - Trane 4PXCCU48 4.0 ton matching indoor cased evaporator coil
    • 1-Aprilaire #2410 high efficiency whole house air cleaner
    • 1-Honeywell TH6220D1028 5/2 programmable thermostat
    • 1-Little Giant VCM15ULS condensate removal pump
    • Removal and disposal of the existing gas furnace and air conditioner and all job related trash
    • Supply and install PVC flue and combustion air for the new furnace and run those new pipes to the existing flue pipe in the basement
    • Connect the new furnace and air conditioner to the new thermostat
    • Recover the refrigerant from the system for recycling
    • Supply and install new refrigerant lines for the new system
    • Furnish and install a water tight safety pan and 24 volt shut off switch for the new furnace to sit in
    • Supply and installation of cork & amp; rubber anti-vibration pads, to allow air circulation and to help eliminate any noise transmission
    • Supply and installation of flexible canvas duct connectors on both the supply and return connections to the existing duct system
    • On the supply ductwork that we use to adapt to the existing system, we will use a closed cell foam insulation, internally installed
    • On the duct we will use gasket between the sheet metal supply piece and the air handler to help isolate noise transmission
    • Supply and install new a breaker for the new hot air furnace and heat pump or air
    • conditioner in the existing main panel and reuse the existing power wire from that location to the existing equipment locations
    • Supply and install a new condensate pump and connect it to the new system and run the drain to an authorized location
    • Includes insulated galvanized sheet metal supply and return trunk line adapters serving the existing system. Gas piping, flue piping to the outside, power wiring connections, control wiring, system start-up and one year warranty all included.
    • We will perform the A.C.C.A. “Manual J” heat loss / heat gain calculation


    B. $
    • One (1) Bryant model #113ANA048ONO outdoor units-208/230 single phase.
    • One (1) Bryant model CNPVP4821ALA indoor coil
    • One (1) Bryant gas heater model #912SC48100
    • Reclaim freon per EPA rules and regulations
    • Remove and dispose of old equipment
    • Supply all rigging to complete this project
    • Fabricate and install one (1) new condensate pump
    • Fabricate and install new duct work where needed to tie in the new heater
    • Start, test and check operation
    • Reuse the existing freon lines


    C. $
    • Rheem Model R96VA1002521MSA 96% Prestige Series 2-stage propane gas furnace with ECM motor
    • Rheem Model RA164AJ1NA 4 ton 16 SEER A/C
    • Rheem Model RCF4821STAMCA 4 ton aluminum cased coil
    • Rheem Model RETST601SYS EcoNet thermostat control kit
    • Rheem Model REWRA630SYS EcoNet thermostat Wi-Fi module
    • Complete removal of old system
    • Line set, pad, whip and disconnect
    • Complete start up and testing
    • One year parts, labor and workmanship.
    • RHEEM WARRANTY: Furnace limited lifetime warranty heat exchanger, 10-year parts. A/C 10-year conditional parts warranty


    D. $
    • Remove the existing heater and air conditioner.
    • Furnish and install a new 96% 2-Stage propane gas furnace Amana.
    • Furnish and install a new 4-ton 15.5 seer condenser Amana. (Guess this is the ASXC16 model from a Google search)
    • Furnish and install a new Cased a coil.
    • Furnish and install new line set from condenser to coil.
    • Reconnect into the existing exhaust piping.
    • Furnish and install a new HEPA filter box.
    • Reconnect into the existing supply and return ductwork.
    • Re-wire the new units.
    • Start and check the unit operation.


    Thank you all in advance for your feedback!
    Last edited by beenthere; 06-21-2016 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Prices

  2. #2
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    Prices removed, we don't talk prices here.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  3. #3
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    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
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    The first quote sounds the most professional, unfortunately that doesn't mean they use the best installers. I don't know about the "internal closed cell foam on supply plenum". Are they talking about R max foam board? If so I don't beleive it's approved for use in ductwork.

    Did anyone do a manual J or will they do one if awarded the job and change the sizing if neccessary?

  4. #4
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    The first quote sounds the most professional, unfortunately that doesn't mean they use the best installers. I don't know about the "internal closed cell foam on supply plenum". Are they talking about R max foam board? If so I don't believe it's approved for use in ductwork.

    Did anyone do a manual J or will they do one if awarded the job and change the sizing if necessary?
    Agreed regarding the level of professionalism of the quote, but is that a good reason to pay roughly $ more for the installation?

    I am not sure about the cell foam and will have to ask.

    I used a local friend in the construction business to give me the names and then I sent the four photos of the existing equipment and environment where the equipment sits outside and inside as well as measurements between the equipment. My goal is to narrow to two and have them come out to the house and complete the calcs and fine tune their quotes if needed. I have found this process to be very helpful in avoiding the first round of the hard sell as well as saving me several nights of time with the family.
    Last edited by beenthere; 06-22-2016 at 05:28 AM. Reason: Price

  5. #5
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    I would go with A simply because they are offering a manual J heat load calculation using ACCA software. that is tried and true software, and if they are doing a load calc to size equipment properly then they should understand that screwing up the airflow would lead to undersized equipment capacity. In other wards they should be competent in airflow. and yes that price difference would be accurate for someone that understands HVAC installation.

  6. #6
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    Must be a BIG downstairs!

    #1 is single stage 95% furnace, nice 16 SEER A/C.
    #2 is builder 92% furnace, builder 13 SEER A/C.
    #3 is a nice 2 stage 96% variable speed blower, 16 SEER A/C, communicating control with WiFi
    #4 not sure what furnace, vs blower?, nice A/C

    BUT, being propane, anybody mention dual fuel?

  7. #7
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    Thread Starter
    What is the second fuel source? Electric? Does that push to a heat pump?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Quandary View Post
    What is the second fuel source? Electric? Does that push to a heat pump?
    Dual fuel would be a heat pump and the secondary heat source would be the propane furnace. You'd likely save enough on propane in a few years to pay for the system.

    I didn't see the price difference but yes quality contractors do, as they should, cost more upfront but in the long run cost you less than the low bidder. Not always though, some large outfits are the worst. The contractor you choose matters infinitely more than which brand equipment you choose.

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