Mini split geo system

[ges74]

Why not consider running (powering) a 110/115 "mini-split" system(s) from a PV solar arrangement..? I wasn't aware that manufacturers are producing units in this range, but apparently they are. In my mind, this opens up a few more/new options for a "green" approach to, what I guess we can now start calling conventional, active heating and cooling systems.

JBeckham, funny you should mention that - a quick forum search over at Green Building Advisor (sorry, still will not allow me to post links) will show that folks advise just that - to take the difference in up front cost between the geothermal and mini-split and invest it instead in PV panels.

I originally learned about ChilTrix via a thread I started on GBA - in case you are interested. Title is "Mini-split + heat pump water heater OR geothermal cool/heat + water heating?" (again, sorry, system won't allow me to post links for whatever reason.)

Please keep us updated on what you find re: ChillTrix - I am just learning about HVAC systems and could use all the technical mentoring I can get!

[jbeckham]

JBeckham, funny you should mention that - a quick forum search over at Green Building Advisor (sorry, still will not allow me to post links) will show that folks advise just that - to take the difference in up front cost between the geothermal and mini-split and invest it instead in PV panels.

I originally learned about ChilTrix via a thread I started on GBA - in case you are interested. Title is "Mini-split + heat pump water heater OR geothermal cool/heat + water heating?" (again, sorry, system won't allow me to post links for whatever reason.)

Please keep us updated on what you find re: ChillTrix - I am just learning about HVAC systems and could use all the technical mentoring I can get!

I'll have to check that forum out and see what people are saying there. I've only recently become motivated to start looking at solar, but I get more interested in it each and every day.

The ChilTrix system reminds me of what Daikin is (has) been doing in Europe for some time with their Altherma product. I've never installed or even seen an Altherma system in person (there's rumored to be one Altherma installation in my state). I can tell you that the cost differences between a Daikin Altherma vs ChillTrix system are pretty noticeable, and the Altherma system isn't designed or intended to be scalable.

I've been looking for a manufacturer that's producing a reasonably priced, inverter driven hydronic heat pump/chiller application for years...

FWIW, the Wilco USA Inc. sales rep. (parent company of ChillTrix) told me that the HVAC related internals of their AC/DC hybrid and straight DC mini-splits are utilizing Carrier/Toshiba components. I just mention this to further help those people that might still be clinging to a "large brand" mentality. Hopefully, people will start to understand that there are typically less than 5% of any particular manufacturers in any particular industry that are exclusively manufacturing the entirety of their own products... companies have been "re-branding" for so long that we often don't stop to question why or where it's occurring.

[ges74]

ChilTrix reminds me of Daikin's Altherma product.

Surprise, surprise, one of the gentlemen in the thread I mentioned spoke of the Altherma as well! http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...trix-equipment

[ges74]

Oh, now I'm allowed to post links, hurrah. Here's the original one I mentioned.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...er-or-geotherm

[jbeckham]

Oh, now I'm allowed to post links, hurrah. Here's the original one I mentioned.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...er-or-geotherm

Why not buy one of these (http://www.flir.com/flirone/display/?id=69324) and perform your own energy audit(s)? It probably cost the same as an audit (maybe less) and the FLIR will always be available for additional tasks and projects... plus it's just a cool piece of kit.

I don't know why we don't have a mini-split forum here... I know there have been members that have asked for one to be created.

Anyway, to address your question/concerns you posted on the GBA forum, I would advise you to look into a mini-split application for your HVAC renovation project instead of a geothermal application. I don't necessarily have anything against geothermal applications, I just think you're in for an expensive (most likely unpleasant) venture if you're not performing the install and subsequent maintenance yourself... unless there's just a really good (economical) geothermal contractor (with a lot of good references) in the Wilmington area.

I'm still reading up on the ChilTrix, Solar Panels Plus, and hotspot-energy product documentation... but, from my own vantage point as an installing HVAC contractor, I will say their products certainly have my attention...

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any specific questions about your project, my personal email is in my profile and my company is listed on this forums contractor map http://hvac-talk.com/aop/

[ges74]

Why not buy one of these (http://www.flir.com/flirone/display/?id=69324) and perform your own energy audit(s)?

Oh, very cool. Alas, even if we had it, my husband is FAR from a do-it-himselfer so we would end up having to get someone to do the patch/repairwork anyway. But good to know that end-user devices exist out there, thank you.

...look into a mini-split application for your HVAC renovation project instead of a geothermal application.

Yes, that seems like the general consensus.

I'm still reading up on the ChilTrix, Solar Panels Plus, and hotspot-energy product documentation... but, from my own vantage point as an installing HVAC contractor, I will say their products certainly have my attention...

I found one other post mentioning ChilTrix on this forum - http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....chillers/page2

I also talked to John at ChilTrix/HotSpotEnergy who shared with me the following:
- Wilco, their parent company, manufactures equipment for various brand name companies.
- The system is an amalgamation of "best-in-class" components. For example, compressor is Toshiba, valves Demersen? (couldn't catch name), electronics are from Japan, heat exchanger is from Sweden, and variable speed pump is from Germany.
- Every part is "off the shelf" so servicing should not be difficult. Neither installation nor servicing requires any special certification but experience with chillers would be a plus.
- 700 units have been deployed in Europe over the past 3 years but when I asked him under what name so I could do more research, he demurred
- Instead of building an installer network themselves, they are relying on interested end users to do the work for them and "bring" installers to them.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any specific questions about your project, my personal email is in my profile and my company is listed on this forums contractor map http://hvac-talk.com/aop/

Thank you very much, JBeckham, I will definitely take you up on it. It would be tremendously helpful to have unbiased yet expert 3rd party perspective on various options. Are you the one in Birmingham?

[jbeckham]

Yes, I'm based out of Birmingham.

I've been talking to John too.., and I just finished up scheduling a visit to the ChilTrix/HotSpot-Energy headquarters for the 1st week in November. Wilmington really isn't that much out of the way for me with this particular trip. I'll be heading into Atlanta to visit with the GA Mitsubishi Electric operations center after I visit the ChilTrix/HotSpot-Energy group. I could swing by and take a look at your project in person if you like...

[ges74]

Have sent you a couple emails offline.

[servicefitter]

I finely decided on a two Gibson made by Gree multi split three high wall units. The main reasons were the house is in a very rural area in the middle of Missouri almost in Arkansas, qualified service people are hard to come by for technical systems in the area. Two systems were picked for one main reason - any problems with one system hopefully I'll have ac or heat while waiting on parts getting shipped. Geo,solar or chilltex are neat systems but if I'm unable to service these on my own the system would have to be replaced with a more conventional system

[jbeckham]

I finely decided on a two Gibson made by Gree multi split three high wall units. The main reasons were the house is in a very rural area in the middle of Missouri almost in Arkansas, qualified service people are hard to come by for technical systems in the area. Two systems were picked for one main reason - any problems with one system hopefully I'll have ac or heat while waiting on parts getting shipped. Geo,solar or chilltex are neat systems but if I'm unable to service these on my own the system would have to be replaced with a more conventional system

There won't be much of a difference between the inverters that are in the Gree units versus any of the other mini-split manufacture's equipment... As far as refrigerant cycles and heat transfer within geothermal or air to water systems, the same science/physics that makes conventional systems perform is also in effect.

I'm sure there are at least a few people near you that can service and install "high-efficiency" systems. You'll just need to search them out.

[crispE]

I know mitsubishi makes water source condensers for their citi multis, only 3 phase at this point. As soon as they step up and make them single phase, WF and Climatemaster are going to be F'd right in the B. Just imagine 40SEER+ on a 10 ton modular system.

[jbeckham]

I know mitsubishi makes water source condensers for their citi multis, only 3 phase at this point. As soon as they step up and make them single phase, WF and Climatemaster are going to be F'd right in the B. Just imagine 40SEER+ on a 10 ton modular system.

I think they were testing their single phase air to water source units (called Ecodan in European/Asian markets) in ATL when I went for Citi-Multi training last Nov/Dec. They should have them avaliable by now..?

By the way, hydronic heat pump/chiller systems are typically rated in COP/NPLV.

[ddchaplin]

I think they were testing their single phase air to water source units (called Ecodan in European/Asian markets) in ATL when I went for Citi-Multi training last Nov/Dec. They should have them avaliable by now..?

By the way, hydronic heat pump/chiller systems are typically rated in COP/NPLV.

I too live in Birmingham, AL, and am considering the Chiltrix CX30 system with fan coil interior units. JBeckham, did you ultimately go with Chiltrix? How's your experience been? Would you be willing to talk off-line to discuss?

[jbeckham]

I too live in Birmingham, AL, and am considering the Chiltrix CX30 system with fan coil interior units. JBeckham, did you ultimately go with Chiltrix? How's your experience been? Would you be willing to talk off-line to discuss?

I didn't end up selecting an air to water source heat pump for my current residence. However, that doesn't mean I would exclude that option from any home I may build in the future, or advise anyone against using that particular application in theirs.

If you need some help, just shoot me an email. My address is in my profile.