I don't know what the union package is where you live, but here in D.C. our full package is worth around $44/hr. That includes medical, dental and whatnot. We get about $33/hr in the paycheck. Also, the company you work for buys the tools you work with. I've never understood how a company can require the employee to buy his own tools.

-JB

 

I'm non-union atm... 1st year apprentice... what would I expect for pay in DC (or Baltimore) if I were union?

 

I can understand buying hand tools....but power tools and specialty tools get quite expensive.

We buy our own hand tools.

 

I know a few union guys Ive worked with on some sites and there company or union hall buys there power tools for them, Yes I do have a tool replacement program but that only gets them fixed when they break, a set of dewalt power tools is about $600. Which isn't alot but I dont make much.

 

I prefer non union......but thats my 2 cents worth. The 33 dollars an hour is not bad for an average wage...I made 57 today...

As far as tools go....this will start a fight but in my opinion EVERY TECH SHOULD OWN THEIR OWN TOOLS...yes all of them. Tools that a technician owns get treated much better than those owned by the company. Besides, I want what I want...brand, size, fit, color, all of it factors in...I am not using some second hand tools that if I break it, I buy it....especially not knowing its past!

 

I prefer non union......but thats my 2 cents worth. The 33 dollars an hour is not bad for an average wage...I made 57 today...

As far as tools go....this will start a fight but in my opinion EVERY TECH SHOULD OWN THEIR OWN TOOLS...yes all of them. Tools that a technician owns get treated much better than those owned by the company. Besides, I want what I want...brand, size, fit, color, all of it factors in...I am not using some second hand tools that if I break it, I buy it....especially not knowing its past!

BS, you should not be forced to purchase tools and equipment used only in the commission of work for your employer. He should provide them for you (ALL OF THEM, PERIOD). Now, I am not saying that you can't own your own. Also, if you you lose/destroy them then you should be responsible to repair/replace them. This is horse crap. In the last seven years I am have spent approximately $8000 on tools that have been used almost exclusively for someone else's business. Should an office worker be forced to buy a computer? Should a librarian be forced to buy the books? Should a hamburger flipper be forced to buy the spatula? I own my own tools, I keep them nice, I use them for personal use. I use company owned tools for work-related and I take care of them quite nicely because they provide me with a living... I hate cheapass business owners.

 

Have you asked your father why he has stayed for so long without all the extra perks?

 

Well yes he is the head Field super at the company, and he has some perks. Theres also more stuff about this company I didnt post before, we don't get paid milage and using our own vehicles at this day and age is burning my paycheck up driving anywhere from 20-60 miles just to get to a site.Then another 20-60 to get home. There paying us 17 cents a mile less than the standard is. We dont use company vehicles unless doing deliveries. Ugh I'm just ranting about how the company is and I think I would have a better living standard going union and saying bye to this company would benefit me down the road. Especially being only 20. The main point of this post is your oppinions. I just want to know how it is in the union, I live in Ohio and was looking into Local 33. Anyone from there that has any information please let me know.

 

YES you will like it and will learn way more..

 

Just "Going Union" doesnt guarantee you success, but man you got nothing to lose going anywhere. Whats up with Dad?

 

Since you are now a man, why not pull dear old dad aside and ask for his input. You may find the answer ti your question right under your nose. There are pros and cons to both, and this topic has appeared many times on this forum. Find out the facts, and dont listen to opinions. What I do know though, is that if I treated my union employees like that, I wouldnt have any, period.

 

No matter which way you go , YOU need to think of the future NOW.

A company that doesn't give you anything but a paycheck isn't a great place to work . As nice as they are , YOU NEED to THINK for YOURSELF.

Union vs NonUnion..I've done both and enjoyed both....depends on the union.

Am union now but can see both sides...Have many buddys on both sides.

You need to go somewhere (NONUNION/UNION)with some Beni's ASAP.

The truck/vehicle thing is crazy...get the heck away from that company!!!!

 

I really appreciate everyone who has commented to taking the time to read and post, I just feel that I'm stuck atm and I just want to figure things out before Im here for to long.

 

If you think your stuck now, wait until you have a wife, kids, mortgage payement etc. NOW is the time to make your move, we're coming up on the busy cooling season and employers need experienced people ( in case you don't know it there is a severe shortage of experienced workers in this field). IMO your present employer sounds like a selfserving cheapa$$!

 

Well, here is a Union leaders' perspective......


The company, no matter how nice they are to you, is concerned with the work. Period. YOU have to be concerned about YOU.

Sure, you feel some loyalty because they are picking up the tab on your trade school......but they have a selfish reason for putting you through school. Dont forget that.

Find an apprentice program and join it. I wish I had at your age......

Union vs. Non-Union is a long (winded) subject, which strikes a nerve in some people.

Good luck to you either way!

Yo

 

the union will give you schooling and pay you better.

 

First let me state that I am not in favor of most unions because they seem to be "corrupt" in their organizational leaderships. That being said, I joined the union over 35 years ago because the benefits, training, wages etc. far exceeded anything the non-union companies had to offer. When I left the union (moved to a location where there are no unions) I was making $42.50 an hour as a certified foreman, which was more than double what the non union shops were paying there top techs. They provide the best apprentice training and you can change companies ( if you wish) to get a broader experience level and still have the same pay scale. Of course if the co. you work for services all sizes of equip. such as package units to large centrifugals then you may not want to change. As for using your own truck and only getting 17 cents/mile you may want to check that out. They are required by law to pay you a certain rate which, the last time I put in for it was about 48.5 cents per mile. Don't have the website right now to look that up but if you want I will find it and let you know. Bottom line---go with the union.

 

Go union for a while. If you like only being able to do sheet metal work, or service work..or whatever the union tells you to do, then you'll like being in a union. There's lots of people in this trade that use to be in a union and would never join another one again. There's a reason only 14% of techs are now in a union. You might make more, but there's a lot more BS.

 

I've worked union and non union. Union doesn't really guarantee you a better job. It still is determined by the company you work for. If you are young and still need experience, you may want to go union to get it. It also looks good on a resume' later. Also, it depends on your local union. Some unions are stronger than others and have good training programs, others are there just to collect dues. This can all be done in a non-union shop if it is the right company. When it comes down to it, it is still just your decision.

 

It's all about you. I was in the local pipefitters down here in Columbus; didn't like it. Some guys love it & wouldn't have it any other way. There's good arguements for both sides, but I really see that it depends on you and your tastes. Money is nice, but not if it's bought with misery. At 20 years old, I would hang with Dad for another season & see what the company's intentions are for you. Don't be hasty; you are in advantageous position that you may never find yourself in again.

 

In my opinion the major reason to go union is money. You could be one of the top mechanics at your non-union shop, but be paid much less than the other top mechanics there. People generally don't like to discuss money, and if you don't know what you're worth compared to the other men of your caliber then you will get stiffed. Many companies will not throw money at you unless you ask repeatedly or you threaten to leave. And even if the do consider a raise, it would be easy for your manager to say "nobody makes that". With the union, at least you know that you are guaranteed a fair wage for a guy that has completed the apprenticeship. Although many union members negotiate a wage higher than scale.

 

I would love to stick around with my father for a while here and the company would also, but after talking to my shop foreman and a few people in the field I gathered up some information about the company I didnt know.

Our top installer is making just over $20 / hr. hes been workign here for about 17 years.

And I was telling some of the people that the company wants to throw me in my fathers shoes in a couple years and everyone I told that to said they would quit before they worked under me ,Because of the time they have with the company already. It's not because of me.

I was looking into the Local 33 out of Cleveland, OH and noticed there one of the only unions for alot of stuff, benis, retirement package, good wages, and lots more.

Also don't want to piss the boss's off here since they have known me since I was a kid it's just there really don't do **** for me and the other employees just care about filling there pockets. And if I did decide to leave I don't know how they would treat my father, feel like Im squeezed atm.

 

I am strong anti-union. I think they had a necessary role in the growth of this natiaon but have become corrupt and are draining the life out of the country. You sell your soul to the devil when you go union. You give up so many rights. Unions double the cost of big jobs with no appreciable jump in quality. I have been threatened and intimidated by union goons on many jobs and for nothing.

On another angle, if you go union, you lose some benefits:
You only work set hours. That means if the boss wants to reward you with a littel comp. time off, he can't.
If the boss wants to reward you with a vacation, he can't
If the boss wants to reward you in any way other than what is in the contract, he cannot.
You opportunities for growth are limited by how we connected you are with the "in crowd" and good old boys in the union.
When things go bad, contrary to their rhetoric, you can be sitting on your butt not collecting squat. While sitting out, try to find other work. Nobody will hire you.
Unions are driving all the jobs offshore yet they b!tch about everything coming from China. Who do you think drove all that mfg. offshore? Who killed all the steel mills? Who bankrupted the railroads and a thousand other industries?

The best ER nurse I ever knew next to my wife was in the union. One of her kids got sick and being a single mom, she was late twice in one month arranging for an emergency sitter. Gone! Union rules. When I was a basic EMT at that hospital, The union told us to our faces our raises were being sacrificed so the food and janitorial workers, who were 2-3 pay grades higher than us, could get another raise. We were making less than half of min. wage at that point. Did it because we loved it.

Sorry, but I feel unions are whores tied to the mob & the liberals and are ruining the country.
Hearthman

 

I am strong anti-union. I think they had a necessary role in the growth of this nation but have become corrupt and are draining the life out of the country. You sell your soul to the devil when you go union. You give up so many rights. Unions double the cost of big jobs with no appreciable jump in quality. I have been threatened and intimidated by union goons on many jobs and for nothing.

On another angle, if you go union, you lose some benefits:
You only work set hours. That means if the boss wants to reward you with a littel comp. time off, he can't.
If the boss wants to reward you with a vacation, he can't
If the boss wants to reward you in any way other than what is in the contract, he cannot.
You opportunities for growth are limited by how we connected you are with the "in crowd" and good old boys in the union.
When things go bad, contrary to their rhetoric, you can be sitting on your butt not collecting squat. While sitting out, try to find other work. Nobody will hire you.
Unions are driving all the jobs offshore yet they b!tch about everything coming from China. Who do you think drove all that mfg. offshore? Who killed all the steel mills? Who bankrupted the railroads and a thousand other industries?

Hearthman

Completely inaccurate post as far as benefits go. That may have been true for the janitor union you were in, but it certainly isn't true for all. Our union contract is the bare MINIMUM that the contractor is allowed to offer. You can negotiate for anything you want.

Working set hours? Total BS. How can an HVAC shop only work set hours? There are regular working hours, outside of which you are paid overtime, guaranteed. Who would want comp time instead of overtime? Such an arrangement only benefits the contractor.

No vacation? More BS. We have vacation written into our service contract. Many companies offer two weeks right off the bat.

No rewards other than what's in the contract? Again, more BS. The contract is the minimum offered. Contractors offer all sorts of incentives, they must in order to keep their guys because mechanics are at a premium.

 

Comparing an office job to an HVAC technician is apples to oranges. An office job pays you from when you show up til when you leave...PERIOD. As a technician I have all the benefits of an office job...PLUS...I have a van to drive home at night....I have a fuel card to fill up this van...I am covered under my company's insurance to and from work in this van. I think providing a van is providing enough....I am glad to buy my own tools. Tell you what, you find me an office job that will pay my gas and insurance to and from work and I will be glad to buy my own computer for that job! The "lurker" states that he hates "cheapass business owners"....makes me wonder if he knows just how "cheap" it is to run an HVAC business these days?

 

check this out.......i get a van to use..their gas card and they even buy the tools to use on their jobs!!!!! WOW what a concept...when the job is over they get the profits....and i drive their van to the next one....and so on... etc.

 

O.k. I'll give you the cheap business owners thing. That was a low-blow and un-called-for. But, the van is only a benefit if you get to take it home. Many contractors do not allow their techs to take vehicles home. The contractors that do allow techs to take their vehicles home do so because it benefits the company as well as the tech. Imagine a business needing to own/rent enough space to store all its vehicles AND provide security for them. Not to mention that if the techs didn't take the trucks home, then the contractor would be required to pay the tech to drive to the first job in the morning and back to the shop in the evening. So they would get roughly a 6-hour day out of the mechanic. The gas card is not for you, it's for the truck. If it was for me then I would be able to use the truck for personal things, but I can't. Insurance is factored into the cost of doing business and it's required by law. They don't have insurance because they like you.

 

Personally I'm not real big on Unions myself. I really don't like the fact of having a union telling me where I can or can't work.

Right now I work for a small company, and I get medical, dental and vision benefits, paid vacation and a gas card for my truck. If I wear out or break a tool on the job they replace it.

And I believe every Tech should have basic hand tools, including a meter and gauges.

Unions had a place at one time, and did some good things, but now some cause more problems than they solve.

 

Personally I'm not real big on Unions myself. I really don't like the fact of having a union telling me where I can or can't work.

.

I never understand this statement. I went out and found the job I am at now. The way the union helps in getting a job is the list. I can call the union and get a list of employeers looking for new employees, and what the requirements for the job are. I pick which ones I want to apply for. The only person at the union I have to talk to is the dispatcher.

 

Why should we have basic hand tools including a meter and gauges, Michael? Sorry, not trying to put you on the spot, but I want to have a discussion as to the reasoning behind this belief.

 

Well to me that shows dedication to ones craft. And I don't want to depend on some bean counter who thinks they know better than I do on what tools I should have. I've spent time in the Air Force (as a HVAC Tech) and all we got was crap tools, with mostly non-insulated handles. And thats when I started buying and using my own tools.

Now my tool bag consists of the following:
Nut drivers 1/4" thru 1/2" (Klien)
Screwdrivers flat and phillips (Klein)
Adjustable wrenches 6", 8" and 10" (Sears)
Hex Key set
Service valve wrench
small metal caliper
25' tape measure
Supco Capacitor Tester
Flashlight
Valve core remover
mechanics gloves
Fluke 333 meter
Speary Electonic Thermometer (dual input)

All that weighs in just under 25 lbs. I also have two sets of gages for R12,22,502 and one set for R410a. And a couple of tool boxes with various other items, including a battery drill.

I also know electricians who are union and even they have a basic hand tool list that they are required to have.

 

Mallron.....does your company supply you with everything??? (as far as tools)