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Took a look at my relative's 4 ton spit, cool only system (R22 about 8 years old). It's working fine, I was just giving it a once over for them. Someone installed a two wire Kickstart hard start kit at some point, maybe from the initial install. From reading here, it seems most prefer the the 3 wire 5-2-1 kit. So I decided to swap out the Kickstart with a 5-2-1 (new and proper size). Not only did the compressor not start with it, but the the 5-2-1 capacitor got pretty warm (almost hot). I triple checked the wiring (hard to mess up) and it was correct. So I put the Kickstart back in and all is well again. Any ideas on why the 5-2-1 did that? It's raining now, so any further tests will have to wait.
Note: I did not take any current readings, nor did I try it without any hard start. Since everything had been working fine, I did not see the need. BTW, I replaced the dual run cap last year along with a new contactor (just due to age), so those are fairly new.
Professional Member
The fact the compressor started ok once the two wire was refitted makes it less likely to be the problem. Most likely is you wired it wrong, then it could be the 5-2-1 is fubar.
Start caps will get hot, and eventually explode if kept in circuit, either due to miss-wiring, faulty relay, compressor, or voltage problems. Never stand in line with the terminals when they are powered up.
Professional Member
It's pretty hard to wire it wrong, and I did triple check it.Originally Posted by monkeyspanners
The 5-2-1 cap seems to be ok, but the relay could be bad I suppose.
Professional Member
5 = CAN = COMMON
2 = SHE = START
1 = RUN = RUN
A GOOD WAY TO REMEMBER
Professional Member*
How did you mount the relay
Professional Member
Upright (mounting hole up) as it was supposed to be.
Professional Member
was it sideways and the unit was supposed to be up? if the relay is not mounted correctly it can do this.
Professional Member
Nope, as noted above it was mounted properly. However, due to space limitations, the old Kickstart relay was mounted at a 45 degree angle, so I moved this one over a bit, but then it was only about an inch directly above the contactor. Is there a minimum distance from that, so that the contactor's magnetic field does not interfere? I've never read anything that cautions against that. <grasping at straws here>
Professional Member*
It was either wired wrong or a bad start cap out of the box.
Heating/Cooling Services Inc.
www.heatingandcoolingservicesinc.com
Professional Member
Well, it definitely was not wired wrong. Only 3 wires and pretty idiot proof.
I even made sure they didn't have the wrong wires on the wrong relay terminals before I even started.
Professional Member*
Only 3 wires, but easy to miswire. Seems to happen a lot judging by the number of threads just like this one.Well, it definitely was not wired wrong. Only 3 wires and pretty idiot proof.
I even made sure they didn't have the wrong wires on the wrong relay terminals before I even started.
Global Moderator
Did you ohm out the relay?
I have had a couple 5-2-1 relays that the resistance between 1 and 2 was very high (kΩ-mΩ) right out of the packaging, because of a film on the contacts within the relay.
After opening up the relay and cleaning the contacts the resistance went back to zero.
Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade.
Professional Member
Oh, I have been known to connect things wrong before.But the very first thing I did when it did not work was triple check
Yep. 1-2 zero ohms. 2-5 10.5K I even checked the black wire end to end as it would not be the first time I saw a connector crimped onto insulation.
Oh well, like they say - if it aint broke....
I'll leave what has been working in there, and mess with this 5-2-1 another day.
Professional Member*
Maybe they're just junk? There have been several similar accounts posted.Oh, I have been known to connect things wrong before.
Yep. 1-2 zero ohms. 2-5 10.5K I even checked the black wire end to end as it would not be the first time I saw a connector crimped onto insulation.
Oh well, like they say - if it aint broke....
I'll leave what has been working in there, and mess with this 5-2-1 another day.
I use these.
http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/...start-compress
FWIW these are OEM in some Carrier units. Unlike the 5-2-1 type that senses start winding voltage rise, the two-wire Kickstarts sense run capacitor voltage rise. Copeland approves this method in some of their bulletins. I haven't witnessed a single failure of the Kickstart two-wire kits. It's the only one I'll install.
Professional Member
Possibly not the right cutout voltage rating?
Professional Member
You may be right. Funny, I only seemed to read good reviews here about them while browsing threads. But when I looked specifically for problems, I did indeed find those similar accounts.
Professional Member
I saw a video where a tech showed the spike on an oscilloscope with a ptc, two wire kickstart, and a 521 start cap, each showed a boost when cold but only the 521 showed each and every time.
There is definitely something wrong with the 521 kit you used, an 8 year old compressor should start just with the run capacitor. Did you check the mfd of it, I have seen capacitors at nearly zero still able to start with the kickstart, never seen that with a 521. Just my thoughts on it.
Professional Member
As noted in my first post, I replaced the original cap last year. However I did not check it at the time because it was new and I assumed it was good when everything worked fine. I'll probably take another look at things this weekend.
Professional Member
Not trying to be a smartas but just because a cap is new doesn't mean its good.
Professional Member
Yep, and if its made in China you'll be lucky to get even a year out of it.
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