Replace the capacitors and possibly invest in drain switches..Could save you a hell of alot of money in the long run trying to clean up from an unattended water leak from a condensate blockage....

All other stuff is usually not necessary....

 

Exactly!

There is no TKH coil so not sure what you have there. You'll never get the builder to replace the Allstyle and if it isn't leaking, it doesn't need to be replaced anway. Unless the coils have non-bleed expansion valves, hard start kits are not needed.

Sounds like a firm with technicians on a fat commission arrangement with an incentive to sell you all kinds of unnecessary stuff Gives the industry a black eye

 

" Sounds like a firm with technicians on a fat commission arrangement with an incentive to sell you all kinds of unnecessary stuff. Gives the industry a black eye"
===========================================================

Whut he said

 

the drain switches are good insurance, unless you intend to stand next to the drain continuously.

water damage can be pricey.

 

I would definatly install aux drain switch.Replacing a leaking,or weak capacitor could save your fan motor and compressor from going out.

 

you can buy a drain alarm for $10 at lowe's or depot, and a coil is a coil for the most part. sometimes it is real hard to fit a trane coil on a trane system unless you have 10' ceilings. some of this stuff is petty at best, relax.

 

Find another repairman.

 

allstyle coils should be outlawed, but builders go for low cost. you will sooner or later replace them. the question is now or later.

 

if your freon leaked, why didnt you find the leak?????

 

I think the tech did a good inspection for you if he found all these proplems for you. You always want to go with oem specs on there units. If someone used a inferior evap coil on your ac system and its not a ari rated coil and your not happy with the operation of the system by all means replace it. The capacitors are a must to replace and hard start kits may or may not be needed depending on line length and type of metering device.thesecondary switch is a must and will save you lots of proplems in the future if drain plugs up again. You ask him to come out and give you a evaulation of you cooling systems and that he did its up to you what you get done.

 

Damned if you do,...

This is why I don't miss residential work. This tech did everything right; made every call he saw and you want to second-guess him, go behind his back and accuse him of trying to rip you off. What's worse is some of our own people are on here confirming your suspicions. Yet if the guy didn't write all these things up and you had a problem you'd want him to come back and work on your stuff for free. Or you'd be threatening to sue. You know what, you deserve to have your ceiling cave in from a condensate leak cause you were too cheap to put that safety switch in.

Everytime I think I want to go into business for myself I remember customers like you and wonder how the hell does anyone make a living? There's always somebody that will tell you, "Noooo, you don't need that extra stuff. Just let me do the cheapest thing and you'll be fine." Try finding those guys when your stuff is broke down in the middle of the hottest afternoon of the summer.

OK, sorry for the rant. I'll go take my meds now.

 

Re: Damned if you do,...

This tech did everything right; made every call he saw and you want to second-guess him, go behind his back and accuse him of trying to rip you off. What's worse is some of our own people are on here confirming your suspicions.

This was kind of the take I had on this, don't know about the need of hard start kits due to not having inrush current readings though. Sounds like the tech was fairly thorough to me in what he did on this call.

We as a industry are our own worst enemy.

 

I just don't see recommending replacing the Allstyle coil just because it was there. I didn't see any indication he found it leaking. We don't know that it isn't ARI rated nor did he tell the HO it wasn't. Our Trane dealers used to match with ADP most of the time. Should we tell every HO we see that they need to replace the ADP coil (they were ARI rated) just because the dealer didn't use Trane? Should we be telling all of our customers to replace their ADP coils because we didn't use the OEM coil for whatever reason when we installed the system? Boy that would look funny!

Why did he call for hard start components? Without exact coil info, we don't know if he was just trying to sell something or he found a TXV coil on a recip without a kit. The HO said he had a 5 ton Trane. Since Trane 5 ton coils have TXVs, I would think Trane would have put a start kit on their unit if they thought it needed it. Some of the TTB048s & TTB060s have scrolls. Do they need start help?

How many of you recommend surge protectors on every clean? This is the first I've heard of it. How good are they anyway? Nothing stops a direct hit.

 

I highly beleave in educating the customer. To much tech talk on a service call confuses the customer. I think he did a good job. Ask him why he recomends the coil change and what benefit will it provide.


This is what I read....

On the start kits, he showed me some numbers on the amount of power the units were pulling now versus where their original specs were, and said that installing the kits would put them back in spec and extend the life. He did give me the 'start kits will double the life of a unit if installed originally', which seems to be disputed on here? At this point, after 5 years, is there a benefit for me to get these? Same with the surge protectors?


Thanks!

CCM

 

"Why did he call for hard start components? Without exact coil info, we don't know if he was just trying to sell something or he found a TXV coil on a recip without a kit. The HO said he had a 5 ton Trane. Since Trane 5 ton coils have TXVs, I would think Trane would have put a start kit on their unit if they thought it needed it. Some of the TTB048s & TTB060s have scrolls. Do they need start help?

How many of you recommend surge protectors on every clean? This is the first I've heard of it"

Would you ask these questions of your tech if the HO was standing there? Cause that's what you're doing by making these comments in this forum. If you're going to call someone's professionalism into question shouldn't you do it with more discretion? It seems like this tech was, if in error, erring on the side of caution and with his customers best interests in mind. You going to call him a shyster for that? In front of the customer?

I've got no problem with discussions that question best practices and debate between professionals but please, not in front of the children!

 

I personally have not recommended surge protection on any calls but have recommended hard start components due to my findings.

I have also recommended replacement of coils that were not leaking. Anybody care to guess why?

 

Re: Damned if you do,...

This is why I don't miss residential work. This tech did everything right; made every call he saw and you want to second-guess him, go behind his back and accuse him of trying to rip you off. What's worse is some of our own people are on here confirming your suspicions. Yet if the guy didn't write all these things up and you had a problem you'd want him to come back and work on your stuff for free. Or you'd be threatening to sue. You know what, you deserve to have your ceiling cave in from a condensate leak cause you were too cheap to put that safety switch in.

Everytime I think I want to go into business for myself I remember customers like you and wonder how the hell does anyone make a living? There's always somebody that will tell you, "Noooo, you don't need that extra stuff. Just let me do the cheapest thing and you'll be fine." Try finding those guys when your stuff is broke down in the middle of the hottest afternoon of the summer.

OK, sorry for the rant. I'll go take my meds now.

welcome to hell. cheap people suck.

 

Just my opinion>>For what it's worth.2c.

replace the AllStyle with a Trane and reduct as necessary
- replace leaking capacitor on upstairs unit (showed me residue and I could hear liquid inside when shaking it next to my ear?)
-recommended adding drain switches for both units
-recommended start kits and surge protectors for both units
-recommended new outdoor fan capicitor for downstairs systems (out of spec, but still in max range, or something like that)

These were the things that were 'urgent'...

I went ahead and had the leaking capacitor replaced, just to be safe, but I put off everything else for a bit.

My question to you guys is does the above sound reasonable?

I've done a little research and believe I understand the AllStyle versus Trane argument, and I'm going to go back to my builder and see about having them fix that part. (May not work, but worth a shot!)


These are all findings done by a professional HVAC technician, and as for second guessing what he found without seeing that peice of equipment is just a un-educated guess..

1) Allstyle coils are NOT wildly like by alot of Hvac tech, due to leaking and poor airflow.
2)Capacitor/leaking should be check for value uf/mfd and if below 5% then replaced.
3)Ceiling Saver/beckett switch could be installed on drain or pan to insure if your not home and primary drain becomes clogged and secondary pan can not keep up with flow /cuts voltage to outdoor unit/or to 24 volt circuit to indoor unit.
4)Start kits for Trane equipment, they would have provided a start device at start up if needed. If having starting problems on compressor sometimes one will be added. But, if using a digital thermostat, there is 5 minute time delay built into t-stat that gives unit time to equalize pressures before restart.

These things are options that can increase safety and better operation of your system according to technician who checked it. It is up to you what measures you feel that you need to have done at that time.

 

sorry for the delay...

didn't meant to start a brush fire then run off.. spent a long weekend away...

anyway, thanks for the responses.. all of them!


our system has been cooling fine (as far as I can tell), and we've not had any complaints.. we only had them out because I knew it needed a cleaning and I wanted someones opinion on the blocked drain pipe...

I didn't mean to 'accuse' him of trying to rip me off... not at all... however, I was bit surprised when at the end of this 'cleaning' call he gave me a list of things costing several thousand dollars that were 'urgent' to be fixed...

that's why I turned to you guys.. to get a second opinion..

I don't think it's any different than going to a doctor and then going to another for a second opinion... I'm not just looking for someone to tell me what I want to hear.. I just know that I'm not educated enough in this area to know what I don't know!

 

Hello,

Had a company out today to take a look at our system in the North Dallas area. House will be 5 years old this month.
The person doing the inspection gave me the following recommendations :

- replace the AllStyle with a Trane and reduct as necessary
- replace leaking capacitor on upstairs unit (showed me residue and I could hear liquid inside when shaking it next to my ear?)
-recommended adding drain switches for both units
-recommended start kits and surge protectors for both units
-recommended new outdoor fan capicitor for downstairs systems (out of spec, but still in max range, or something like that)

These were the things that were 'urgent'...


Richard: 1st, I am not bashing the tech.I am sure that 'selling' is part of his job, as they are in several companies around here.

a) leaking capacitor - never seen a leaking capacitor in my 15+ years, but if it was, then it 'urgently' needed to be replaced ( as you did )
b) allstyle coil - on a five year unit without existing leak - NOT URGENT... Tech could have just recommended replacement due to possible problems in the future - thereby keeping you , the HO, informed. However, this should not have been considered urgent - that would be the salesman part.
c)Recommending drain switches is a proper thing to do. Have done it myself many times. This gives the HO an option for not having possible water damage. - Again though, if the Tech considered this urgent, then that was the salesman talking, trying to 'sell' the HO.
d)Recommending hard start & surge protection kits, again is not a bad thing in itself - if the Tech was just informing the HO of possible options for future system protection. But again, if the tech declares this an urgent problem, then that is the salesman talking.
e) outdoor fan capacitor - if the capacitor was below specs, it should have been replaced. By telling the HO, that it needed replacing, because it was low, but within spec, he was again being a pure salesman.
This is the part,I don't like... and have been called for 2nd opinions more than once. One call, other co says fan motor going bad - needs replacing - I said nope, working fine. Over two years its been working. SALES!!!!!!!!


On the start kits, he showed me some numbers on the amount of power the units were pulling now versus where their original specs were, and said that installing the kits would put them back in spec and extend the life. He did give me the 'start kits will double the life of a unit if installed originally', which seems to be disputed on here? At this point, after 5 years, is there a benefit for me to get these? Same with the surge protectors?


Hre, the tech made unsuported statements and exagerated claims that can not be substainiated - wrong way to do.
If the starts were needed. the manufacturer would have installed them.
Start kits doubling the life of equipment - come on - prove it.....

Richard

 

I don't know if the capacitor was leaking or not..

He claimed that it was because (1) there was a residue around the end of it (not the end with the connectors)... (2) he said if you could shake it and hear the liquid inside 'sloshing' around, that it meant that some had leaked out... I shook it and thought I heard a sloshing... and the new one out of the box, did not have that sound...

I understand that he's part repairman and part salesman... just like many other professions... I actually liked him quite a bit, he was personable, and I didn't feel like he was being deceitful with anything he told me...

 

sounds to me he gave you the info you asked for. He also gave you the reasons he felt these upgrades were needed
seems he takes his job serously
have him install two time delays also to give the hard starts time to cool down in case of short cycling or power flicker
imo

 

This is Turtle.

I don't have a issue with nothing but the All Style changing of the coil. If it is leaking freon , yes change it. if it is not leaking freon Leave it alone.

now what your calling a Surge protecter is a time delay on the compressor or compressor saver , yes you should have on on all equipment.

As a HVAC company owner and like to make money but the tight wad in me tells me that i can not take a issue wuith nothing but the changing of the All Style coil. If it leaks freon change it. It it don't leak freon , leave it alone. Now if it starts leaking in the next 10 to 20 years change it, but until it leaks freon just leave it alone.

This company has a good salesman but i just can't take issue with him with nothing but the All Style coil and it not leaking freon , leave it alone. if it is leaking freon change it out.

Now here with no disrespect at all. Put the Pan switches and compressor savers on the system. if you don't have a compressor saver on your compressors, your a good customer to have for being able to change compressor out for them down the road. You will make some HVAC company some good money in the future. Every hvac system i sell will have a compressor saver or time delay for the compressor for i do not want to Sc*** my customer like that. Now if i don't like you i may forget about the time delay or compressor saver.

TURTLE

[Edited by turtle on 09-06-2006 at 12:09 AM]