Three-and-a-half ton system with 80% furnace

[thekux]

Yes CFM. But there's plenty of installs I've done through the years where I'm moving a ton more air through a system still getting a good TD it does raise the suction pressure little bit which is good because Les chances for freezing up. Without air flow you don't have Cooling. You might get away with heating especially here on the West Coast of the US. Washington State most of the houses are all size for heating CFM requirements and a lot of those barely move enough air

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[DavidDeBord]

Marc, isn't that section of flue the 2nd hottest part of the flue (the first turn being the hottest)? I sure would want it all double wall. People think the top of furnaces are little shelves...

That short section of pipe is allowed by Code, as long as it isn't 30G, BUT, .... The Joint is showing the Crimp, & Unless Kux has some very long crimpers, that Joint is not Fully Seated, & therefore poses as a Hazard to the H.O.

[thekux]

That short section of pipe is allowed by Code, as long as it isn't 30G, BUT, .... The Joint is showing the Crimp, & Unless Kux has some very long crimpers, that Joint is not Fully Seated, & therefore poses as a Hazard to the H.O.

I'm at least 2 inches in there

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[DavidDeBord]

I understand historically single wall was common, but I thought the code changed requiring double wall now? or am I mistaken?

Single wall 26 & 24G can be used Davida. In fact, Kux could've ran that flue in all single wall, up to 12" from leaving the ceiling, & then converted it in to B-vent.

Lol! I'd love to see more pictures showing how this Flue is ran.

[davidadavis]

Single wall 26 & 24G can be used Davida. In fact, Kux could've ran that flue in all single wall, up to 12" from leaving the ceiling, & then converted it in to B-vent.

Lol! I'd love to see more pictures showing how this Flue is ran.

Even if the newer codes were being enforced? Considering how many fires are started by clothes and crap against flues I would have thought they would have adjusted to require double wall.

I do know 100% that in attics, walls, and closed off spaces are required to be double wall in the 2006 code. Although I am not really sure why I am bothering to learn about this.. better than watching tv I suppose.

G2427.7.6 (503.7.6) Installation.Single-wall metal pipe shall not originate in any unoccupied attic or concealed space and shall not pass through any attic, inside wall, concealed space, or floor.

[thekux]

Even if the newer codes were being enforced? Considering how many fires are started by clothes and crap against flues I would have thought they would have adjusted to require double wall.

I do know 100% that in attics, walls, and closed off spaces are required to be double wall in the 2006 code. Although I am not really sure why I am bothering to learn about this.. better than watching tv I suppose.

G2427.7.6 (503.7.6) Installation.Single-wall metal pipe shall not originate in any unoccupied attic or concealed space and shall not pass through any attic, inside wall, concealed space, or floor.

The system is in the garage

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[davidadavis]

It took 4 tons of air just to get any air coming out of the vents. 2 tons you couldn't even feel the air flow it felt like nothing was coming out it was a big house two story

I was obviously making a joke, but come on... everyone is saying your job is sub-par, and your reluctance to see the importance of sizing is right there at the top of the list of your hackery.

[thekux]

I was obviously making a joke, but come on... everyone is saying your job is sub-par, and your reluctance to see the importance of sizing is right there at the top of the list of your hackery.

Not size right? It's size great. It pulls that guy's house down and I have always messed with air flows. If you have a 3 ton unit you don't need exactly 1200 CFM. You can be a little higher a little low on that and the unit will still be running and will not freeze up if you're at 1000 CFM. That's where I got my 3 ton heat pump. This house the air flow from the existing furnace that was two tons was abysmal. I knew I needed a lot more CFM because I was going through the whole house and I can hardly feel a thing coming out of the registers. He's a happy camper doubt and I got four tons going through his house. I was actually surprised the house heated at all because the air flow is so bad but Heat is a lot more forgiving

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[HVAC_Marc]

Yes CFM. But there's plenty of installs I've done through the years where I'm moving a ton more air through a system still getting a good TD it does raise the suction pressure little bit which is good because Les chances for freezing up. Without air flow you don't have Cooling. You might get away with heating especially here on the West Coast of the US. Washington State most of the houses are all size for heating CFM requirements and a lot of those barely move enough air

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Less chance of your hack job showing it's ugly face, you mean.

[HVAC_Marc]

I'm at least 2 inches in there

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Ive never seen 5" crimpers.

[thekux]

Less chance of your hack job showing it's ugly face, you mean.

When you have more airflow it always helps the cooling. 200 CFM either way you're usually going to be fine with all the equipment works. My house I have the heat pump running at about 1000 CFM for my 3 ton heat pump works good. It helps the temperature rise in the heat mode

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[HVAC_Marc]

I got four tons going through his house.

You dont know jack about what you have going through the house. You dont measure, you dont gather data. You guess by poking wires onto terminals.

[HVAC_Marc]

When you have more airflow it always helps the cooling. 200 CFM either way you're usually going to be fine with all the equipment works. My house I have the heat pump running at about 1000 CFM for my 3 ton heat pump works good. It helps the temperature rise in the heat mode

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More airflow doesnt mean more cooling. Go back to school.

[thekux]

More airflow doesnt mean more cooling. Go back to school.

Without air flow it doesn't matter. All the problems I've ever seen in the past are usually from a lack of airflow when a space is not being pulled down

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[davidadavis]

My air-condition don't want none unless you got tons, hun
Oh my gosh, look at this hack

[BALloyd]

Ive never seen 5" crimpers.

That's what she said.....

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[HVAC_Marc]

Without air flow it doesn't matter. All the problems I've ever seen in the past are usually from a lack of airflow when a space is not being pulled down

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you can get cooling without airflow. go back to school.

[thekux]

you can get cooling without airflow. go back to school.

I have never seen that in my life but if you say so mark I don't know how that could ever happen. Every single place I've been at the equipments is running doing all it can do it's always been it's under sized the airflow sucks out coming out of the vents there's hardly anything. The one house where I put 4 tons into it the airflow wasn't as strong as you might think.

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[HVAC_Marc]

you're still thinking "air"...

[RMSG01]

How much of that coil, overhanging the furnace is in "Dead Air" thekux?

And why did you not "Hard Pipe" the Gas-line? ... Matter of Fact, is that Gas Line Sized sufficiently for the Water Heater & the furnace?

Does that Evaporator Coil require a "Trap", & where is your "Clean-out" for the Condensate line?

You Also might want to check & Make Sure that you have a Sufficient amount of the Crimped pipe inserted in that B-vent.

And where is Your Combustion Air for the Furnace & DHW?

As far as Your Outdoor Unit, ... I'm not sure about Your "LocalAuthority", but here, We are required to properly mount the Conduit & "Seal-tite".

The Condenser, is to be moved away from any wall far enough, so as to easily permit Service (24"), & for the Unit to properly Draw Air

Washington State goes by the same code books as Louisiana, the test I took to recieve my license, qualifies me in that state as well. That flue pipe is not up to code, it is supposed to be all B vent, the gas pipe is ok, even though hard pipe would have looked a "ton" better, the over hang on the coil would not pass here, much less there, there is no combustion air for the furnace, but there should be, even on old or existing equipment, if there isn't any, you have to make it work with new pipe or venting. As for the extra flow out of the existing duct work, a 4" duct will only carry what it carries, if it needs to be a 7" duct, just because you have more pressure doesn't mean it is moving more air, much like a 3/4" garden hose filling a swimming pool from a fire hydrant vs a 4" fire hose filling the same pool from the same hydrant, volume is what it is, and that is determind by duct size.

The outdoor unit, conduit needs to be strapped and secured and a drip loop where needed, as well as enough space between it and the wall to properly service and allow air flow, it's not 24" but you still need to be able to get a long nut driver between it and the wall 10"-12"

I would not post pics of things like this I done on the cheap, trying to save a "ton" of money for my customer. This actually looks like it will cost the new owner a "ton" down the road. The return duct looks a little small, maybe there's more hidden on the back side we can't see, perhaps.