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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL. USA
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    46
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    One of the reasons there is no "textbooks" on supermarket racks (IMO) is that it utilizes multiple theories and manufacture specific practices.

    For example, reverse gas defrost on Hill parllel systems is entirely different from Hussmann's Kool Gas. Throw Tyler's theory of defrost into the mix and you have more trips for BC powder.

    Start with RSES manuals, if you understand whats in those cover to cover, you can repair the engineers FU'ps.

    How bout the early hussman compound racks before the green pumpers did it internally?? Started 2 of those headaches for Winn Dixie in Ft Liquordale.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Earth
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    Which Winn Dixe?
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,219
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    Drfreeze: You mean the Hussmann BIGs?

    They were a good system. Sort of.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL. USA
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    46
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    If I remember correct the first was W/D in Ft Laud, north of Commercial Blvd, around 1991, the other was Fla City or Homestead, don't remember.

    Hussmann Big's???

    Honestly the only thing I remember about the project was units had early version CPC's that allowed unit to operate in a vac for short periods on Med temp side (mt. cases on FF rack, go figure) and pulled in moisture from a leak (store hadn't even opened yet).

    Solution was I added more unloaders, or had Huss do it I should say, and had the leak repaired.

    Those were the last ones I touched, now we just replace black pounders with demand cooling on Huss racks.

    How many locations have you gone to with black gunk on TXV's on an entire lineup from one bad DC module.

    I hate to say it but those Benton 'Necks have got low temp. 22 down to a science.

    Publix is still lost in the wild!!!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,219
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    Wonder whatever happened to these guys???

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere in the Caribbean
    Posts
    221
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    Re: cpc

    Originally posted by stenfam
    not sure if CPC does ABROAD. Most likely they do though.
    Einstein I bet not!
    Where abroad? It "usually" gets 25 years behind over "there".
    I don't know about other 'abroad' places, but we have several racks (hussman and tyler) with CPC controllers. All are RMCC's, no Einsteins.
    AND
    I think it's more like 10 years behind. We don't even require epa certification as yet. I have held type-4 since 1995. Hell, we can still "blow 'n' go", if we choose to. I think they will begin to enforce certification within the next 18 mo's.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
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    I have been around the business nearly all my life. And the one thing that is true in any good rack guy is, he can teach himself. He can learn on his own.

    It can be one of the toughest areas of the trade for the mechanic. Long hours. Technically demanding like you have never seen before. I too say, if you can hang with a busy supermarket shop, you can damn near do anything you set your mind to in the trade after that. Money can be great, but you work for it for sure.

    I got worn out myself. Just whooped. On top of the work, the polotics of the last shop I was at was unbearable. The pressure for doing things on the cheap is just kiliing very talented men. Killing their spirit. And you need soul in that kind of job.

    I look at what I do now, which is some warehouse stuff, some racks. I do some small independants, but smaller. I do resturaunt stuff too. And I am slowly shedding refrigeration work to do HVAC. I am at 50/50 as of right now. HVAC service work is so much easier for me. My god. It's just that you don't have to think near as hard. In my mind HVAC is so much more straight forward. I am teaching myself hvac. I didn't know shit about air flow, static pressure, balancing. I am starting to. Way easier.

    And I will tell you all something. Even larger tonnage HVAC guys, most I have met, not trying to cut on anyone, but most of the guys I run into, their refrigeration skills are lacking. An HVAC guy does not deal with the refrigeration system like a refrigeration guy does. A refrigeration guy is always having to. So when going on an air conditioning system with a refrigeration problem, it's naturally instictive for the refrigeration guy.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    So. California
    Posts
    303
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    I have never seen a published book on Supermarkets either, but there is usually a log book at all supermarket out here. Sometimes that is a life saver. When ever I was on job and had to recover or do something that took awhile I would sit there and read the log book, all of it sometimes years of information.

    I say use to because I am no longer doing supermarkets. Like all the other guys said "If you have a good head on your shoulders, it shouild be no problem". You will have days that just drive you crazy, and good days (very rare). A good day is when you are headed home about 6p.m..
    My best teacher was me, learning from my mistakes.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Earth
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    I loved marketwork.
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Fairfield and NewHaven Counties in Commecticut
    Posts
    4,920
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    I still love the markets and the challenges of the old racks and computer controlled TXVs, VFDs ect. I just hope i can hang until my next phase what ever that may be.
    Quality and Value Service and Repair

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    476
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    Want to learn racks? Sit in front of one, follow the pipes and understand the basics of refrigeration. Its just like any and all conventional system, with some bells and whistles attached for defrosts and cold amb conditions. The rack controllers are all type specific but all do the same thing, control compressors, possibly Condensers, cases ect. You need to learn as you go. As for the overseas gig, well your going to have to relearn allot once you jump the pond, I know that Switzerland and Germany markets are generally small and don't use Racks as we have them here, the consumer market in Europe is a localized type of consumer so they have lots of small shops rather than any "Supermarkets". You could count on one hand the number of racks in say Paris or Bern (insert large city of your choice).

    Working on and with racks is not a tough thing by any stretch, BUT knowing how to fine tune and pull every ounce of efficiency, predict problems and generally "be one with" the rack, that takes YEARS of late nights and early mornings asking yourself if this is REALLY worth it all.



    Oh and mechanics that know how to install a market from the ground up PROPERLY are the best mechanics. You got to know how to spot the install problems, they are the ones that stump most guys for years and plague a store for its lifespan (or until the next reno if your lucky)

    [Edited by bryan l on 11-14-2005 at 10:08 PM]
    "I'm really easy to get along with once you people learn to see it my way."

    "I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter."

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7
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    All Grocery store rack companies (Hussman AKA INGERSOLL RAND, Kysor Warren, Hill pheonix, all have detailed manuals in their rack design and functions as someone said though they are built store specific Valve types, controllers ect, but what they will show you is the basic principle of the rack, basic stand alone control wiring ect.
    Which BTW comes in handy when you come up on a fried ddio16 board (Danfoss controller) and have to wait on fedex to deliver the next day, which as it is always the case its the low temp rack. Anyway contact the companies the will send you the manuals might be a fee but their worth it. CPC, Danfoss, ETC controllers will also send you manuals as well, but programing is store specific.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    622
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    jerrycoolsaz

    the links to the manuals you posted don't appear. could you please email them to me?


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