clear up wire size vs max amp fuse breaker recomndation

[acguytx]

Ok i have a MiniS unit with max size fuse man. reco of 15 amp @240V ph 1

now the electrician ran 12/2 romex from disconnect back to 15amp breaker at the main panel

I didnt have 12/2 for my small whip to go under 6Ft to condenser but had 14/2 romex.. they said i shouldnt use it..

its rated for 15amps 600v, so why cant i use it on short run just as the disconnect as the main breaker is on 12/2 all the way to main panel..


need some clarification as to is he correct or are we both right or am i wrong?

TIA

[Snapperhead]

Strip off the sheathing .... now its ok

[Snapperhead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WugJ8-70Sqs

This video makes electricians head explode LOL

[mark_kershner]

Mike Holt is my go to standard for electrical matters. That’s an excellent video.


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[dieseldude]

Theoretically it will work fine, but electrical common practices say never downsize and electrical conductor. Even if the breaker size can handle smaller wire.

[RLJN]

Code does not allow Romex outside (considered damp location).
I do believe you are allowed to bring Romex directly into the back of the disconnect, as long as the sheathing/paper is removed and the white conductor ID-ed as not white anymore.

The reason is that the paper inside the cable will pick up moisture and wick it thru the entire cable.

Striping off the sheath would get rid of that factor. However the white conductor is then not proper. I do not believe marking it as "no longer a neutral" with a sharpie will fly.
Maybe sacrifice 2 lengths of Romex to get 2 blacks.

Or just buy some 14 stranded and use crimp on forks for the whip.

[acguytx]

Theoretically it will work fine, but electrical common practices say never downsize and electrical conductor. Even if the breaker size can handle smaller wire.

ok some misinterpretation of my questions i suppose. The disconnect near the condenser has a pull out and had 12/2(yellow) Romex all the way to the breaker at main panel i can understand that as it a long run and rated a tad higher then needed

I have the whip ie the under 6ft wire from disconnect to condenser all i had was 12/2 (white) i was going to put it in rubber conduit whip and to the condenser

my question is if its short run why would the electrician say a 14/2 will not work even though it rated for max 15amp and this is 15 amp max overcurrent condesner..it wil never ever run at 15 amps even if startups is high its an inverter drive minispit ..

my question is why did he tell me i should use the 12/2 over 14/2 ?

im trying to understand because 12/2 says its rated for 15amp max? this is short run?

explain?

TIA

[Unlimited1]

ok some misinterpretation of my questions i suppose. The disconnect near the condenser has a pull out and had 12/2(yellow) Romex all the way to the breaker at main panel i can understand that as it a long run and rated a tad higher then needed

I have the whip ie the under 6ft wire from disconnect to condenser all i had was 12/2 (white) i was going to put it in rubber conduit whip and to the condenser

my question is if its short run why would the electrician say a 14/2 will not work even though it rated for max 15amp and this is 15 amp max overcurrent condesner..it wil never ever run at 15 amps even if startups is high its an inverter drive minispit ..

my question is why did he tell me i should use the 12/2 over 14/2 ?

im trying to understand because 12/2 says its rated for 15amp max? this is short run?

explain?

TIA

white shows it as 120v and its a neutral wire, if its wrapped in black tape it qualifies as 208-230v present, a hot leg color, a color code requirement

it was most likely knowing what the inspector wants, the thwn clear coating on the insulation makes it approved for damp locations...6' is allowed for romex wire "without the wrapping" but that leaves the ground wire bare. the ground wire has to have insulation on it in most places...the THWN 12 awg keeps it consistent..i have 12awg stranded green and black on 150' spools in my van...awg 12 is a universal size on my end..

one of the things i do with liquidtite is make a tiny drain hole at the bottom bend as i have seen lots fill with water over time...

[acguytx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WugJ8-70Sqs

This video makes electricians head explode LOL

was good listen if i make it simple to understand for myself you can use the max am breaker rating on tag but its acceptable to use the Min amp rating to rate wire AWG?

and if i understand what some of you stated if its Romex simply remove the insulation and use the black/white/bare(green) wires run through the conduit?

[dieseldude]

He is following his training , to never lower the size of the conductor. Obviously your solution would work. That last call however would be that of the inspector.

[acguytx]

He is following his training , to never lower the size of the conductor. Obviously your solution would work. That last call however would be that of the inspector.

No need for me to do it now as i didnt complete the job and have to go back Tuesday anyway but was asking for future reference. In a pinch i could have used the 14/2 for the whip in my 1/2 liquid tight.

however ill bring 12/2 when i return make sure its correct no matter who looks at it..

this was simply a fact finding mission always battle between Electricians and HVAC

[acguytx]

white shows it as 120v and its a neutral wire, if its wrapped in black tape it qualifies as 208-230v present, a hot leg color, a color code requirement

it was most likely knowing what the inspector wants, the thwn clear coating on the insulation makes it approved for damp locations...6' is allowed for romex wire "without the wrapping" but that leaves the ground wire bare. the ground wire has to have insulation on it in most places...the THWN 12 awg keeps it consistent..i have 12awg stranded green and black on 150' spools in my van...awg 12 is a universal size on my end..

one of the things i do with liquidtite is make a tiny drain hole at the bottom bend as i have seen lots fill with water over time...

interesting on the colors didnt realize white was neutral only. however i see electricians everywhere use romex with the white for 240V so a white is 120V in this situation..i just checked the 12/2(yellow Romex i have and it hs the standard black/WH insulated and the bare grounds..

[BBeerme]

Think it was already mentioned, but just tape both ends of the white wire with black tape, and that brings it up to code.

interesting on the colors didnt realize white was neutral only. however i see electricians everywhere use romex with the white for 240V so a white is 120V in this situation..i just checked the 12/2(yellow Romex i have and it hs the standard black/WH insulated and the bare grounds..

[acguytx]

Just one small wrap of black tape near the end as marker?

[BBeerme]

Tape the white wire so you cannot see any white.

[hvacker]

Follow the minimum circuit ampacity on the unit label. It's usually higher than what the unit draws.
Any change in wire size has to be fused if memory serves. So if 12 was run from a breaker, 12 needs to be continuous.
That won't apply within equipment.
I think it might be a sourcing/sinking where the #12 can source more than #14 can sink. I'm not sure if this was the idea behind the rule and my memory being what it is.
I'd run the #12. I could add that some electricians don't use anything smaller than #12. (including T'stat sub bases.)

[kangaroogod]

was good listen if i make it simple to understand for myself you can use the max am breaker rating on tag but its acceptable to use the Min amp rating to rate wire AWG?

and if i understand what some of you stated if its Romex simply remove the insulation and use the black/white/bare(green) wires run through the conduit?

You cannot remove the conductors from a cable and use them in a conduit and meet code. The individual conductors are not marked (the cable jacket is)

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[kangaroogod]

No need for me to do it now as i didnt complete the job and have to go back Tuesday anyway but was asking for future reference. In a pinch i could have used the 14/2 for the whip in my 1/2 liquid tight.

however ill bring 12/2 when i return make sure its correct no matter who looks at it..

this was simply a fact finding mission always battle between Electricians and HVAC

Installing a NM cable (romex that is designed to dissipate heat into the air) inside a conduitwh8ch cannot dissipate heat is technically against code. Use UF wire which is readily available or stranded thhn in a whip

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[kangaroogod]

interesting on the colors didnt realize white was neutral only. however i see electricians everywhere use romex with the white for 240V so a white is 120V in this situation..i just checked the 12/2(yellow Romex i have and it hs the standard black/WH insulated and the bare grounds..

White can be used as a hot as long as the wire is "reidentified"

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[BBeerme]

Yeah, like the children today "reidentify" their sexual orientation. Just put a bit of colored tape on it, and call it good.

White can be used as a hot as long as the wire is "reidentified"

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