question on my new high effeciency coleman tm9v080b12mp12c 9 2 stage, ECM, 80K btu)

[axc123]

Hi all, first time poster here. few questions on behavior of high efficiency furnace, ECM, 2 stage.

CONTEXT: live in eastern Canada (Gatineau\Ottawa area) so in Celcius...
century old house, but insulated and 90's window, about 1400 Sq Ft over a 2 1\2 story.
Had a york diamond 80% single 80K BTU for about 24 years, never had a problem, but because of age, replaced it with a coleman 96%, 2 stage, ecm.
thermostat was replaces 3 years ago with a honeywell rth2300b

QUESTIONS:
1- I find the new furnace cycles very often and not sure if normal, here is a sample log of cycling times, duration
Nov 25 ( outside temp about -5C)
9:00 am to 9:24 ( change of program, from 18C to 21c )
932- 945 ( thermostat kept at 21 for below times)
954- 1004
1015-1024
1040-1048
1102-1111
1128-1135
1154-1205

♪ov 26 ( outside temp about -1C)
803- 846 ( change from 18c to 21c )
854- 905
915-925

Does this sound normal to you guys ?

2- i don't see a difference in stages , should I ?? how can I tell if furnace in stage 1 or 2 ? read a bit on it and in first 10 mins it is stage one, but in the morning, after running for 10 mins, I dont see or hear or feel a change

3- ECM fan...Really disappointed here, thought furnace would have variable speeds during cycles, but aside from starting gradually and stopping gradually, i see no difference...big hype

the only change I mad was to honeywell thermostat set-up setting. ( from 1 = single stage, 80% furnace to 3= high efficiency gas furnace)

haven't contacted company yet as wanted to check with expects first. On installation day, they did not do any pressure tests, etc... intake-outake readings, etc..
just want to make sure the furnace isn't running too often and shorten it's life expectancy

Thank you

[kdean1]

Staging depends on the way the furnace is set up and wired to the thermostat. We won't be able to tell anything about your situation at this distance.
The installers should have made several measurements and adjustments at installation. If they didn't, it needs to be done.
I prefer a variable speed blower to the plain ECM but they're okay if the furnace has a good duct system and the blower speeds are set properly.

[BaldLoonie]

Is that a 2 stage thermostat or are you using the timer to stage it? Sounds like a timer. May need to be turned on. Most dealers put on a 2 stage stat for best control of the nice furnace. We sell mostly 2 stage equipment and insist on 2 stage thermostat.

You should be able to tell the increase in blower noise when it goes to high. What size is the furnace? Hopefully 60,000 or less.

The advantage of variable speed furnaces is:
They are constant CFM up to a point. If you have it set for a certain CFM for cool, for example, and the filter gets dirty, the blower will ramp up to maintain desired CFM.
You can have dehumidify on demand where a high end thermostat will signal the blower to drop airflow, usually 20%, to skew cooling towards humidity removal from temperature dropping.

[DOGBOY]

Your furnace is cycling 3 times an hour. so you went from an 80,000 btu 80% furnace with an output of 64,000 btu's to an 80,00 btu 96% furnace with 76,800 btu output and wonder if there is a problem? your new furnace is approximately 20% larger.

[beenthere]

Your furnace is cycling 3 times an hour. so you went from an 80,000 btu 80% furnace with an output of 64,000 btu's to an 80,00 btu 96% furnace with 76,800 btu output and wonder if there is a problem? your new furnace is approximately 20% larger.

Yep, you now have more heat being delivered, than you did. So the runs times should be around 17% shorter than with your old furnace. So what would have been a 20 minute run time, is now a 16 minute run time.

Did the contractor wire up your thermostat to control staging, or just set the furnace to control staging.

Your contractor has done you no justice.

[axc123]

Your furnace is cycling 3 times an hour. so you went from an 80,000 btu 80% furnace with an output of 64,000 btu's to an 80,00 btu 96% furnace with 76,800 btu output and wonder if there is a problem? your new furnace is approximately 20% larger.

Correct if new furnace is running at stage 2...
Stage one should be 65% of 80,000 , so about 52,000

[axc123]

Yep, you now have more heat being delivered, than you did. So the runs times should be around 17% shorter than with your old furnace. So what would have been a 20 minute run time, is now a 16 minute run time.

Did the contractor wire up your thermostat to control staging, or just set the furnace to control staging.

Your contractor has done you no justice.

Thanks.
It is Same thermostat ( make model in original post)

Wired with w1 only, as per picture attached

So staging done by furnace logic board..

But if it runs at stage one, should be about the same as my old furnace.

Still cant figure if it is running stage one or two..

If only manufacturer would have the control board blinking lights indicate on which stage the furnace is on....simple...eh??

[axc123]

thanks, it's a 80K BTU new furnace. thermostat wire has 4 cables, and is wired with W1, so furnace shoudl be doing the staging, reason for my post, I can't tell when it is running in stage one or 2... and the manual does not mention anything about how to find that out..

[axc123]

forgot attachment... here is the thermostat wiring

[James Colver]

So your thermostat is a single stage. I've installed many of those furnaces and overall I like them. The only reason I stopped selling them was because UPG who makes those began intensely overcharging for them. Over the last 5 years the cost on those units have risen at least 60% for no reason at all. That said the board has a jumper which hopefully your installer moved over. If your using a single stage thermostat the jumper can be moved over to make the board kick on the second stage after 10 or 20 minutes. Send a picture of the board if you want...

[axc123]

So your thermostat is a single stage. I've installed many of those furnaces and overall I like them. The only reason I stopped selling them was because UPG who makes those began intensely overcharging for them. Over the last 5 years the cost on those units have risen at least 60% for no reason at all. That said the board has a jumper which hopefully your installer moved over. If your using a single stage thermostat the jumper can be moved over to make the board kick on the second stage after 10 or 20 minutes. Send a picture of the board if you want...

thanks so much for your relevant answer. here is a pic of the board, hopefully you can read the jumper descriptors, wires are in the way..

[beenthere]

Looks like its set to operate as a single stage only. So its in high stage all the time.

[James Colver]

Looks like its set to operate as a single stage only. So its in high stage all the time.

I'm about 90% sure it's actually locked in low fire, not high fire. I've worked on those controls many times. If you just jump the R and w1 it'll start in run in low fire and the GV should be running around 1.9" WC. I agree his jumper is not set to activate the high fire after ten minutes. He should move the jumper to "10" and set the gas valve to 3.5 "WC when the high fire kicks in.

[BALloyd]

I'm about 90% sure it's actually locked in low fire, not high fire. I've worked on those controls many times. If you just jump the R and w1 it'll start in run in low fire and the GV should be running around 1.9" WC. I agree his jumper is not set to activate the high fire after ten minutes. He should move the jumper to "10" and set the gas valve to 3.5 "WC when the high fire kicks in.

But do you think his installer locked it in low fire on purpose if it kept bouncing off the limit switch in high?

It does sound like they replaced an 80,000 btu 80 percent with an 80,000 btu 96 percent furnace. Likely with no duct work mods.

Sounds oversized to begin with on the old furnace after they updated the insulation and windows on only 1400 square feet. Ottawa can get cold but not that cold normally.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

[axc123]

But do you think his installer locked it in low fire on purpose if it kept bouncing off the limit switch in high?

It does sound like they replaced an 80,000 btu 80 percent with an 80,000 btu 96 percent furnace. Likely with no duct work mods.

Sounds oversized to begin with on the old furnace after they updated the insulation and windows on only 1400 square feet. Ottawa can get cold but not that cold normally.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

possibly factory set that way ???

manual says:
SINGLE STAGE THERMOSTAT
If a single stage thermostat is used, the high/low input staging will be
controlled by the furnace control board, using the staging jumper. If the
staging jumper is set to the 10, 15, or 20 position, the furnace will switch
from low fire to high fire after 10, 15, or 20 minutes and will stay in high
fire until the thermostat is satisfied. If the staging jumper is left in the
OFF position and a single stage thermostat is used, the furnace will
only operate at low fire.

here are the jumpers descriptions...

[Restaurant Mech]

Blows my mind that in this day and age companies are still install larger units than were being replaced.
It's not rocket science to calculate output and replace a unit with one of equal output.....

[axc123]

I'm about 90% sure it's actually locked in low fire, not high fire. I've worked on those controls many times. If you just jump the R and w1 it'll start in run in low fire and the GV should be running around 1.9" WC. I agree his jumper is not set to activate the high fire after ten minutes. He should move the jumper to "10" and set the gas valve to 3.5 "WC when the high fire kicks in.

I get that the staging jumper is in off position...Thanks.
But i dont understand rest of your recommendation. "Set gas valve to 3.5..."
Is that a simple setting?

[beenthere]

I get that the staging jumper is in off position...Thanks.
But i dont understand rest of your recommendation. "Set gas valve to 3.5..."
Is that a simple setting?

No, you need them to come back out, and to set up your unit properly.

[James Colver]

X2 on beenthere's suggestion.

You'll need a monometer to set the correct pressure and a combustion analysis to make sure the burner is firing properly. I'm getting the impression you hired a B Team installer because all the jumpers are at the factory settings. They didn't adjust any airflow or staging. They may have just put it in and walked away

[axc123]

X2 on beenthere's suggestion.

You'll need a monometer to set the correct pressure and a combustion analysis to make sure the burner is firing properly. I'm getting the impression you hired a B Team installer because all the jumpers are at the factory settings. They didn't adjust any airflow or staging. They may have just put it in and walked away

Thanks James and others.
I Emailed contractor and asked he come back and do adjustments. Wanted to know what to ask and say and this forum helped a lot. Got the impression on installation day, that they rushed things and saw no testing, then again, i was running all over the house to quiet the smoke detectors, as on first startup LOL, but they left very soon afterward.
I now see why he was $ cheaper than others...