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Thread: Appion Core Tools Revisited

  1. #1
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    Appion Core Tools Revisited

    Well, I know this was in an old thread, but I didn't see it and had no idea.
    I was aware of a problem with tightening the core tool too tight and it won't let the schraeder pass thru the o-ring, and I thought that was the only unusual quirk of these tools until the other day. I guess I was just lucky this didn't rear it's head earlier, because i've been using these core tools for over 5 years. But it seems the side port is designed with the shraeder core quite a bit lower inside the 1/4" flare fitting than normal, causing problems.
    I had vacuum on the last two jobs start jumping around, up down, all around. Checked all gaskets, checked pump, checked gauge and no problems found. Finally got the last job done, although it was a sow vacuum down to 200 microns. Lo and behold, I accidentally found this thread and sure enough the BluVac adapter core pusher was just a hair too low to fully depress the side port shraeder on the core tool. Screwed it out a half turn and all is well with the world again. What a crock. I had a bunch of 1/4" flare x 1/8" pipe fittings lying around when compared to the appion crts were quite a bit shallower, so I though i'd just change them out, but no go, seems Appion uses a proprietary fitting, with the pipe fitting quite a bit smaller than 1/8" NPT,
    I would simply remove the cores and leave them out, but I'm afraid the need might arise for me to remove whatever is connected to the side port and I wouldn't have any way of stopping refer or vacuum from going bye bye.
    No bid deal, just something that might save you some head scratching on the job, when you least need it.
    Worth bringing up again as a reminder.

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  3. #2
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    Had a core get stuck the other day but it was in the path of the ball valve. Bent the valve stem and probably messed up the ball valve seat.
    The new tools are very irritating and surprised there hasn't been a fix by now.

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    It worries me that I'll be working on a system and lose the charge because the core gets stuck in the tool.

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    Appion at some point redesigned the end of the core tool and it grips better than the old version. Which version do you have?
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

  6. #5
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    If I'm correct, there are three versions of the tool. Mine is the second version.

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    Ok yeah I think that second version still works ok but the third version that has the magnet on the brass part and the tip actually pinches the shoulders of the valve core is the best.
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

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    I asked appion about it and they said the whole problem is that there is no standard to valve cores. Every manufacturer varies slightly from the other. Thatís why they came out with the pinch design. It works for most and can be adjusted to fit the others. A lot of times Iíll just take the pincher and make sure it fits tight before I even put it in the tool and attempt the core removal.
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

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    As a funny and also stupid story I got so frustrated on a very large commercial split system one time that I changed the core live. It was leaking badly and I couldnít get it out because itís like it was caught on some burr or something inside. It was on the suction side which was pretty low while running. I yanked it out with needle nose. Had my crt ready to go and open so I could screw it on without gas trying to get out of the threads. Shut it off and installed a new core. It was dumb for sure but I was confident that I could get it and I probably lost less gas than someone carelessly disconnecting a high side hose
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

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  11. #9
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    So the tighter gripping plunger is enough to overcome the oring that doesn't have enough room to clear the core?
    If I remember right the 1/4" tool uses the same oring up front as the 5/16".
    You would think the oring that works in the 5/16" tool would be too big for the 1/4" tool.

  12. #10
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    Actually, that's the worst.

    The one I have with the magnet, is stamped 19. The ends are not hardened so they keep spreading apart. As I mentioned recently in another thread, the shrader was literally blown off of the tool by the wind. But my earlier one stamped 15 (with no magnet) has worked flawlessly for something like five years with a hardened end and no 'adjustments', ever.

    It's not the O-ring, it's the core extractor part of the tool that is defective. It's just bad engineering. Quite possibly because it has to be cheaper to bring to market.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayMan7 View Post
    Ok yeah I think that second version still works ok but the third version that has the magnet on the brass part and the tip actually pinches the shoulders of the valve core is the best.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Actually, that's the worst.

    The one I have with the magnet, is stamped 19. The ends are not hardened so they keep spreading apart. As I mentioned recently in another thread, the shrader was literally blown off of the tool by the wind. But my earlier one stamped 15 (with no magnet) has worked flawlessly for something like five years with a hardened end and no 'adjustments', ever.

    It's not the O-ring, it's the core extractor part of the tool that is defective. It's just bad engineering. Quite possibly because it has to be cheaper to bring to market.
    Hmmm Iíve used my new ones for about a year now and have never had a problem. They always grip very tight and I think Iíve only ever made 1 adjustment. I donít know why mine would be different
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

  14. #12
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    I've tweaked mine (the newer one) tighter twice now.

    Actually, just got out of the shower, and this was running through my head. Here's what I came up with. Very likely the problem I am having is due to Trane units that have or used to have the solid brass caps. Opening has been closed a bit from over tightening. Appion core removal has to work harder to get the shrader past the crimped threads. And that is what is opening the 'jaws' gripping the shrader.

    Never have had a problem with the original hardened steel. I can take a photo of both together, and you will be able to see what I mean.

    In my opinion, this new style totally sucks and is a waste of my time. I would happily pay Appion ten bucks for the old style core piece only (don't need the body); actually more, but only because I would be returning the receipt to my employer.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayMan7 View Post
    Hmmm I’ve used my new ones for about a year now and have never had a problem. They always grip very tight and I think I’ve only ever made 1 adjustment. I don’t know why mine would be different
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    I've tweaked mine (the newer one) tighter twice now.

    Actually, just got out of the shower, and this was running through my head. Here's what I came up with. Very likely the problem I am having is due to Trane units that have or used to have the solid brass caps. Opening has been closed a bit from over tightening. Appion core removal has to work harder to get the shrader past the crimped threads. And that is what is opening the 'jaws' gripping the shrader.

    Never have had a problem with the original hardened steel. I can take a photo of both together, and you will be able to see what I mean.

    In my opinion, this new style totally sucks and is a waste of my time. I would happily pay Appion ten bucks for the old style core piece only (don't need the body); actually more, but only because I would be returning the receipt to my employer.
    Oh man I know exactly what you mean and I have run into that many times on Tranes (I used to work for a large Trane dealer). Itís an unbelievably annoying pain in the ass. Anyway, I just happened to find a ream in a junk bin at a pawn shop and I bought it just because I thought it was cool. Well it turns out that it reams out those 1/4 flares perfectly so the core can come out. It even has a recess in the end that accommodates the stem and at the end of the travel itíll finally hit the stem and blow the shavings out. It was just total dumb luck that I got it Itís marked 6.375mm/0.25 in for anyone who is curious.
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

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  17. #14
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    Whoa, that's way cool, looks like it was made just for that!


    Quote Originally Posted by JayMan7 View Post
    Oh man I know exactly what you mean and I have run into that many times on Tranes (I used to work for a large Trane dealer). It’s an unbelievably annoying pain in the ass. Anyway, I just happened to find a ream in a junk bin at a pawn shop and I bought it just because I thought it was cool. Well it turns out that it reams out those 1/4 flares perfectly so the core can come out. It even has a recess in the end that accommodates the stem and at the end of the travel it’ll finally hit the stem and blow the shavings out. It was just total dumb luck that I got it It’s marked 6.375mm/0.25 in for anyone who is curious.
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

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  19. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayMan7 View Post
    Oh man I know exactly what you mean and I have run into that many times on Tranes (I used to work for a large Trane dealer). Itís an unbelievably annoying pain in the ass. Anyway, I just happened to find a ream in a junk bin at a pawn shop and I bought it just because I thought it was cool. Well it turns out that it reams out those 1/4 flares perfectly so the core can come out. It even has a recess in the end that accommodates the stem and at the end of the travel itíll finally hit the stem and blow the shavings out. It was just total dumb luck that I got it Itís marked 6.375mm/0.25 in for anyone who is curious.
    What does the other end look like?
    Quickly, I must hurry, for there go my people and I am their leader!

  20. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    What does the other end look like?
    Itís just just a plain shaft like the end of a regular drill bit...nothing fancy. So half of it is cutting flutes and half is just a regular 1/4 shaft.
    "I think Quantum tunneling would work great... "

    "Call a technician for God's sake. Or we'll see you on the news or the Dark Side of the Moon."

  21. #17
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    I wonder if a Dremel carbide cutting bit, really slim , say 3/16 no, I mean 3/32 .
    It might work in there on those crushed fittings like you're talking about on the Trane units.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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