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Thread: Trane 4TEE3F40B1000A Air Handler York YZB04211 3.5 ton Heat pump. Ecobee

  1. #1
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    Trane 4TEE3F40B1000A Air Handler York YZB04211 3.5 ton Heat pump. Ecobee

    Hello everyone,

    Firstly, thank you for a fantastic forum, it has been hugely informative reading the threads so far!

    I moved into my house in 2018. It has:

    York YZB04211B heat pump
    Trane 4TEE3F40B1000A Air Handler
    Trane BAYHTR1415 or 1419 2 circuit electric heat
    Trane BAYSPEK140B+ single point power entry kit
    2 x Honeywell TH6220D Thermostats

    There were several issues with the system when I moved in:


    • The heat pump only had a 2-conductor cable going to it. One wire was hooked up the the reversing valve (O) at the heat pump, the other wire was hooked up to power and compressor (R & Y1) all connected together with a wire nut. There was no C wire.
    • They had wired 2 thermostats in "parallel". One downstairs and one upstairs. They had the downstairs one to trigger the heat, and the upstairs to trigger the cool. Although BOTH were wired to O.
    • All 3 W terminals are jumpered at the air handler. The Honeywell thermostat can only operate one stage of Aux, so this I guess I understand.
    • As there were only 2 wire used to communicate between air handler and HP, there was no W coming back from the HP for the defrost cycle

    Almost immediately after moving in I removed both thermostats and replaced them with 1 Ecobee.

    This past summer I ran a new 18/8 cable from the air handler to the heat pump, and also from the air handler to the thermostat so that I could correct the wiring. I'm happy to get that done!!

    However, there a several questions I still have about how to wire the system because the York HP and Trane AH are so different.

    1. The Ecobee can handle 2 stages of aux heat. The Trane install manual gives conflicting info if I should jumper W2 and W3 together at the AH. Could someone help me out with the aux heat wiring? I have confirmed the wiring INSIDE the air handler, and there is NO wire into the heat strips for W3. However, there is definitely some sort of trigger on the board in the air handler for the fan if 24V is applied to W3 at the LV terminal block. If I apply 24V to ONLY W2 I do not get the fan at all. However, if I apply 24V to ONLY W3 I get full fan. W1 seems to behave properly were the fan kicks into full when 24V is applied. One one wiring diagram in the Trane install manual is says "W3 should only be connected if you are using a 3 stage heater", on another page it says W1, W2 and W3 should be jumpered.
    2. The heat pump has a "Hot Heat Pump" mode that wants to control the fan of the air handler via sending 24V back to Y2 only after 10 minutes if the outside temperature is under 50. I don't think I need to use this. It's a single stage HP...
    3. The heat pump also wants to control the aux heat to a certain extent. I understand that the HP would want to sent a W signal back to the AH for when it's in defrost mode. But the what the wiring diagram for this unit wants done is for W1 at the thermostat to go ONLY to "W" on the HP. Then the HP will send W1 back to the AH. Meaning that even if the thermostat thinks it needs Aux heat, the heat pump may override that and say "no". Aux heat will only come on if the HP says so. My question is: should I follow these directions, or set it up in the "normal" fashion where t'stat W1 -> AH W1 and t'stat W2 -> AH W2 AND HP W1 -> AH W1 but skip t-stat W1 -> HP W

    I'm sorry for the long winded post with all the long questions! But I'd like to use the system to it's potential, using staged AUX heat, if that is possible, from the Ecobee.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    1) Staging electric heat depends on if you have individual relays for each element. Since we can’t provide DIY advice, that’s all I can say. I really don’t care for staging electric heat because if the heat pump is beyond it’s balance point, you need those additional BTUs anyway. The only difference is the thermostat will satisfy faster than if they were staged.

    2) Hot Heat Pump is fine if you have a desire to have warmer air coming out of the registers, but it does decrease efficiency. I generally don’t recommend using it. I turn it on for crotchety old people who are used to gas/oil heat.

    3) Since you have an Ecobee, I’d say just wire the W terminals conventionally. The YorkGuard defrost board is designed to control the auxiliary heat based on outside air temperature, but almost all smart thermostats nowadays allow the user to control that easily.
    Everything Im going to say today are my conclusions and my opinions, my opinions are based on my education, my training, my experience. Different people have different experiences, so they have different opinions and I make no claim that my opinion has its origin in the mind greatness. - Paul Harrell

  3. #3
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    Should have W and W2 input and output terminals in the heat pump. The stat should send its heat calls to the outdoor unit, and then the outdoor unit will send them to the air handler, based on the dip switch settings on the defrost board.
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  4. #4
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    I can not believe so many people mix heat pump brands. You do realize that having one brand inside and a different brand outside will never work efficiently or properly? You will get heat and cooing but not efficiently. Also it appears that your indoor unit was manufactured between 2001 -2010 which will make it 10 to 19 years old.

  5. #5
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    Thank you all for your answers!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CircusEnvy View Post
    1) Staging electric heat depends on if you have individual relays for each element. Since we can’t provide DIY advice, that’s all I can say. I really don’t care for staging electric heat because if the heat pump is beyond it’s balance point, you need those additional BTUs anyway. The only difference is the thermostat will satisfy faster than if they were staged.

    2) Hot Heat Pump is fine if you have a desire to have warmer air coming out of the registers, but it does decrease efficiency. I generally don’t recommend using it. I turn it on for crotchety old people who are used to gas/oil heat.

    3) Since you have an Ecobee, I’d say just wire the W terminals conventionally. The YorkGuard defrost board is designed to control the auxiliary heat based on outside air temperature, but almost all smart thermostats nowadays allow the user to control that easily.
    1) Understood, and thanks for your opinion! I don't totally understand about the relays. It seems like a moot point though if your opinion is to have them all come on at once. I know there is no DIY advice allowed on this site, so being cautious of that, is there a website you would recommend that explains this a bit just for some general knowledge?

    2) The HVAC tech I had out recently said the same thing. And considering I am using the "Enhanced" fan profile on the Trane unit, it makes sense to disable the "Hot Heat Pump" operation.

    3) Could you clarify what you mean by "conventionally"? You mean thermostat -> AH directly, I assume.

    Thanks again!!

    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Should have W and W2 input and output terminals in the heat pump. The stat should send its heat calls to the outdoor unit, and then the outdoor unit will send them to the air handler, based on the dip switch settings on the defrost board.
    OK, appreciate that. So what happens if the outdoor unit was to fail (however unlikely)? You would not have the ability to trigger "aux" heat from the thermostat. If the wiring were t'stat -> HP -> AH and the HP went down, then how would the signal get through?

    I followed the wiring diagram when I originally installed my Ecobee this spring, which calls for: E on t'stat -> W1 on AH <- W1 out HP. I did that, except plugged E info W1 on the thermostat. On the first call for AUX this winter my Ecobee stopped working. I chatted with their support yesterday and the (super helpful) person I spoke to said that there is a high chance the 24V coming "back" from the HP might have fried the Ecobee.

    Perhaps I should have sent W1 on the Ecobee to W (in) on the heat pump. That brings me back to my original question: what happens if the heat pump fails? I won't have "Emergency" heat.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOGBOY View Post
    I can not believe so many people mix heat pump brands. You do realize that having one brand inside and a different brand outside will never work efficiently or properly? You will get heat and cooing but not efficiently. Also it appears that your indoor unit was manufactured between 2001 -2010 which will make it 10 to 19 years old.
    100% agree. I come from the automotive world where I am used to looking at factory wiring diagrams where there is NO ambiguity or opinion, lol. Trying to look at the wiring diagram of the Trane and the York and trying to figure out the "best" way to do it is, well, a challenge. It seems there is no "right" answer!! It's frustrating not to have a matched system, but I'm not going to replace the HP until it fails. I really do NOT want to replace the air handler and it will have to go out through the roof as it was installed in the attic. Regardless, it would be wasteful to replace equipment that just go the "all good" from the tech.

    We moved into the house in 2018 and the previous owner was very thorough and had all pretty overwhelming collection of manuals with notes and dates on them from a complete renovation in 2008/2009. Both the HP manual and AH manual are dated 2008. I haven't looked for the date stamps on the machines (do they have them?) to confirm, and I assuming the units were new when they were installed.

    Thank you all!!!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzard60 View Post
    Thank you all for your answers!!!!!



    1) Understood, and thanks for your opinion! I don't totally understand about the relays. It seems like a moot point though if your opinion is to have them all come on at once. I know there is no DIY advice allowed on this site, so being cautious of that, is there a website you would recommend that explains this a bit just for some general knowledge?

    2) The HVAC tech I had out recently said the same thing. And considering I am using the "Enhanced" fan profile on the Trane unit, it makes sense to disable the "Hot Heat Pump" operation.

    3) Could you clarify what you mean by "conventionally"? You mean thermostat -> AH directly, I assume.
    1) Installer’s guide for the air handler or heater kit has all the info you need. Anything beyond that or not understood and you’ll need a pro.

    3) What I mean is tying all the Ws together, don’t worry about running a separate wire for W/W2 IN and another for W/W2 OUT. Let the Ecobee control the auxiliary heat. Having the defrost board control it is a method for when you don’t have a thermostat with that capability.
    Everything Im going to say today are my conclusions and my opinions, my opinions are based on my education, my training, my experience. Different people have different experiences, so they have different opinions and I make no claim that my opinion has its origin in the mind greatness. - Paul Harrell

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    Quote Originally Posted by CircusEnvy View Post
    1) Installer’s guide for the air handler or heater kit has all the info you need. Anything beyond that or not understood and you’ll need a pro.

    3) What I mean is tying all the Ws together, don’t worry about running a separate wire for W/W2 IN and another for W/W2 OUT. Let the Ecobee control the auxiliary heat. Having the defrost board control it is a method for when you don’t have a thermostat with that capability.
    The defrost board has the ability to lock out the aux heat above X degrees.

    Its a bit like a Trane GAM air handler. The air handler board controls he outdoor unit, not the stat.

    So what happens if the outdoor unit was to fail (however unlikely)?
    What happens if the thermostat fails?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    The defrost board has the ability to lock out the aux heat above X degrees.

    Its a bit like a Trane GAM air handler. The air handler board controls he outdoor unit, not the stat
    Right, but why set a pin on the defrost board when you can change the setting on the thermostat and reference the weather? It’s more convenient and reliable because sometimes those OAT sensors pick up residual heat/cold from other sources and you can more easily play around with the lockout temps on the fly to find the best balance for efficiency and comfort. Letting the defrost board control it is nice when the customer has a basic thermostat.
    Everything Im going to say today are my conclusions and my opinions, my opinions are based on my education, my training, my experience. Different people have different experiences, so they have different opinions and I make no claim that my opinion has its origin in the mind greatness. - Paul Harrell

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    What happens if the thermostat fails?
    Point made! Fair enough. I guess, seeing as I have had a thermostat fail now, it's pretty easy to pull it off the wall and tie the wires together as needed to get heat, etc. If the HP fails, it's a bit more arduous to go outside in the weather and deal with it out there... I'm sounding a bit of wuss now though, lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzard60 View Post
    Point made! Fair enough. I guess, seeing as I have had a thermostat fail now, it's pretty easy to pull it off the wall and tie the wires together as needed to get heat, etc. If the HP fails, it's a bit more arduous to go outside in the weather and deal with it out there... I'm sounding a bit of wuss now though, lol!
    I believe if the board fails, it fails with the switches/contacts for aux heat closed. So that if the thermostat calls for aux, it still works. Other wise, it would be a problem.
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    I really appreciate the feedback from you both. I do admit that it is hard to decide which method I should use as they are contradictory!! On one hand I like the using as close to "proper" wiring endorsed by beenthere. However, I agree with CircusEnvy that the Ecobee does know a bunch of info itself like outdoor temperature so you don't need to rely on the heat pump. The other side of this is that the Ecobee WANTS to control something but cannot because the heat pump is in the way, or thinks there is a better way to do it, that doesn't really make sense. We are talking about 2020 technology (Ecobee) vs 12+ year old tech in the HP. Or at least that's how I see it

    Should I toss a coin, lol?!

  12. #12
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    That defrost board is still made today and in the newest units York makes.
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    and my ecobee is at least 5* off to what my outdoor thermometer says it is usually it is closer to 10* off summer low and winter low.

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    OP, dont overthink it. You cant go wrong with either method, but IMO, best to keep things simple and let the thermostat control everything. If it says the auxiliary heat is running for X amount of time, you can believe that to be true rather than guessing if the defrost board is blocking the signal. Its smarter than that defrost board and more convenient to adjust if you need to make changes.

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