Professional Member
Agreed. Most people I know were not born here.Originally Posted by pageyjim
Regular Member
Foreign students alone.
161,693 international students
"(That survey includes students who stay on for a year or two after graduation for jobs or internships under special training visas.) California colleges had 161,693 international students in 2018-19, a drop of 250 from the previous year, but still the most in the nation by far,..."
Professional Member*
Seems that people here get really caught up in the old Googler and finding something that fits their narrative. In any case, I never said that California had the highest prices in the union. Just that they still have an incredible demand for NG that they as a state are unable to support by themselves since the state crippled itself with regulations. The stuff is in abundance right in its own backyard, but California, decided not to tap it when it needed it, instead, like a whiny, teenager, wanted the government to bail them out due to their low supply and imminent crisis. And those EVIL pipe-lines were built to feed their demand. Don't get me wrong, Utah and Wyoming make serious bank off of California's need for NG and Oil, so not complaining. Just was pointing out that I think California needs to take a step back and really make sure they have the electrical supply they need.
The dirty little secret no-one talks about is the massive amounts of electricity California buys or imports from Utah, and funny enough as it is, all that power we supply California and Nevada, is through coal and natural gas burning facilities. They try to hide it, but I rockhound around the largest one in Utah, deep in the West Desert, and thanks to California, there is miles of coal cars on railroad tracks feeding that gluttonous beast. And that keeps the folks in our Coal country very happy indeed. Maybe use that Googler to look at a satellite view of the Intermountain Power Plant outside of Delta, UT and follow those transmission lines, that was built primarily for California. That was a hell of a project that again, made us very wealthy. And we love selling NG and electricity to California, money in our state coffers.
So in a nutshell, California can say that the electricity they produce "in state" is the cleanest in the nation, but honestly, the vast majority of the electricity they use is from "out of state" coal and NG plants. Hypocrisy in a way?? Who knows.
Professional Member*
From the Wikipedia...I guess a credible source...LOL
Intermountain Power Plant is a large coal-fired power plant at Delta, Utah, USA.
It has an installed capacity of 1,900 MW, is owned by the Intermountain Power Agency, and is operated by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. Wikipedia
Regular Member
California gets .15% of their electricity from coal.
Did you have a point?
Membership Chair/ARP Committee / Professional Member*
No it doesn't. It is just being interpreted as refuting - but it's actually not even directly related.
The most important of the words I used were NET and WORTH. People moving to CA to make $110K have nothing to do with people with a genuine net worth moving out. Twenty years ago I used to use 'at least a million dollars net' to study it but later I saw that the out-migration phenomena was even apparent at the 1/2 million-plus level.
PHM
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When faced with the choice between changing one's mind, and proving that there is no need to do so, most tend to get busy on the proof.
Regular Member
Coal country is happy? I don't think so.
The United States mined 706 million tons of coal in 2019 the lowest total since 1978. That's a 7 percent drop from the previous year, continuing a decade-long decline in overall output since the coal-mining sector's peak production in 2008. Wyoming, the top coal-producing state, saw a 9 percent drop in 2019.
That plant is a co op partly owned by CA.
It is already slated to be shut down and converted to burn a combination of natural gas and green hydrogen.
Regular Member
Well then you only want to tell half the story.
People move in and of that state with frequency. The fact that it draws in educated people is telling that it is vibrant and not going downhill.
Professional Member*
Busy here today, running out and restarting boilers, the wind is causing a few issues with our two 50MBTUH boilers. Honestly joking to myself that it would be nice to convert these to electrical, wouldn't be resetting them....but then I was looking over at the generator for that particular plant and wondering, what size son-of-a-***** would we have to upgrade to to cover the demand of that part of the facility if the power was to go out running electric boilers? And then thinking about the amount of diesel needed to run that generator(s).....then I got a headache and drove back here....LOL
Back to the point, I think the point is simple. California has all the resources it needs to become a very energy independent state. However, due to the ever stricter regulations the state keeps imposing upon itself over the decades, it has become reliant on the nation and neighboring states to carry it through. The key point is there will be an ever climbing demand for electricity to replace the ever growing bans of using NG. California is already importing a good majority of its electricity to meet the states demands, I do not see this as a sustainable path to follow. The grid may handle the load, the infrastructure may be their, etc, but if a state can not be self sufficient with the primary source of power they are aiming to use, then isn't it already a premature jump?
What gripes us most here in Utah, is that it is okay for California to build one of the largest coal burning plants for their use in our state, and then there are these more leftist Californian congressmen and women, who have the audacity to berate our state and our nation for using natural gas and coal? We're like, seriously, uno momento, you guys built that plant, you guys use 80 to 90 percent of that plant, do you seriously want to go there!
It is that, " I am more righteous than thou crap" that goes on with all parties congressional and senatorial leaders that has led me to despise politics.
Professional Member*
Never said they were having record breaking production and getting filthy rich, but the economy in that area around Price, UT, was suffering immensely. And it sure was a relief for them to have a customer that could keep them at work and paying them bills.
As for the power station being upgraded, that has been kicked around for a long time. I think the new administration may jump in and assist the owners to do it. Until now the money is not there. Thus another bail out to go from one evil, coal, to another, NG, there is no difference really.
Regular Member
The plant was built in like 1980 or 1981 so it wasn't as much of a priority or known problem back then. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth saying they are happy not happy when talking about the coal, the economy and having jobs serving CA. Make up your mind.
As I already stated it is slated to be replaced soon and will run on a mixture of NG and green hydrogen. Ultimately hopefully the NG will be replaced totally with green hydrogen. That is their goal.
I would bet they will become self sufficient with electricity production but the way you state this is ridiculous. Not every successful country is self sufficient in energy and energy is no different than food production etc. And this isn't even a country this is a state where that is even less important.
Take care of that headache I think it may be impacting your thinking.
Regular Member
CA does not import "a good majority of its electricity to meet the states demands," It varies between 25-31% depending on the year.
Professional Member
Coming and going. Yea, sure. If that's the case then.....
Please tell me why so many of them have moved into my area of the country over the past 10-20 years, and they won't leave. Two new families moved in down the road within the past 6 months. They think their 2 acre spread is a ranch.
Most of my family left Southern California way back in the 80's and 90's.
They're leaving because the State is screwed up. And it's only getting worse. It's so screwed up there's not enough room here to list all the screw ups.
Regular Member
We are seeding the area. It is what we do. Enjoy the time you have.
Two acres? WOW! If I had two acres I'd raise me some cattle. Grow some corn or something for biofuel. Maybe have a horse farm and train race horses. Have a garden to live off the land and have a nice little stand for you to come by and buy some veggies. With the rest I would probably build a dirtbike course. Oh and the built in pool and hot tub of course. In CA it is almost a law to have a hot tub.
Soon you will have better schools. Better local services from your town. It's gonna be great just you watch.
Your little spread will make a nice development and strip mall. Just enough room for a windmill farm. We will make it quaint with a local feel.
Last edited by pageyjim; 11-13-2020 at 03:22 PM.
Professional Member*
Sometimes things never sound like they should. If you are Greg (my brother-in-law) in Price, and you are a coal miner/stripper in the 80's your co-op has lost the bid to supply coal to the two large coal burning plants in neighboring states, you would get pretty worried, production slows down, hours are cut, and men are laid off. People move out of town, money is not being spent locally, community struggles, the young ones lose interest in mining and move to the bigger cities, life seems to suck. Then, Greg, learned his mine will be part of the co-op to supply the coal to an even larger power plant, a massive order comes in.....I think the mood in the area and for the people is more than happy but more of jubilation. Tell you what, I was happy for Greg and his family. That is where I was trying to go with this. I would be ecstatic, too.
As for the future of both coal and this power plant. Two plant operators I know there are skeptical. There has been a lot of talk about changing over from coal to NG. Even flirting with hydrogen, but that turbine technology of that size has yet to be mastered. There is always a lot of clout when it comes to coal burning plants right now in the news, all of these plants are always saying they are looking at new technologies, to appease the masses, but key is who pays for it in the end? The power plant can not afford the upgrades in conjunction with the down time, so this is where I think this new administration will probably pony up money towards the retrofit. As for the coal industry for my brother-in-law, they could transition to coalbed methane, but they are demonized for that avenue of thought, but I think that is a viable choice they will make in that area, they have the water and the coal seams in that region are prime.
Been a fun conversation. Got to run, touch base later.
Professional Member* / ARP Committee
The tragedy of what you said here is this is actually what you believe.We are seeding the area. It is what we do. Enjoy the time you have.
Soon you will have better schools. Better local services from your town. It's gonna be great just you watch.
Your little spread will make a nice development and strip mall. Just enough room for a windmill farm. We will make it quaint with a local feel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Professional Member*
I believe California passed a code a few years ago that requires emergency back up power for any new building that has an elevator. Does this mean no more natural gas to power the emergency generators? Is diesel still OK to use for them? Would they rather have these buildings install rooms full of batteries that are made out of toxic materials that have to be s-canned and replaced every few years? Yeah, that's way better for the environment.
If at First You Don't Succeed, Skydiving Is Not for You.
Regular Guest
Clyde Lewis of a radio show entitled Ground Zero has talked about how Russia is the No. 2 oil producer and if we go green how much of course they will benefit.
I can't believe I never thought of that and never heard of it neither before nor since.
Also, I'm not being a fancy pants. I had to Google how to use nor in a sentence.
Regular Member
It was posted to reflect what people like you think. That is both tragic and funny. Others have already posted similar remarks.
Regular Member
No big deal but Russia is #3 in production but curious how us going green would benefit them? My first thought is that any country going green benefits all other countries at the same time but I don't think that was what you meant.
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