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Nordyne Mobile home furnace issues with flame rectification
Hey everyone, i was wondering if anybody has run into issues with the older 80% Nordyne forced draft furnaces proving the flame. Every year i get 1-3 calls on these furnaces that I have a lot of trouble with and still am to this day. Every time the flame lights then it could stay lit or it could go out at any point after it fires usually within 3-10 seconds. I know the igniters act as the flame sensors on these units so every time, I try an ignitor, ignition control, checking gas pressure, make sure the furnace is well grounded, some units like the one i just work on have a fresh air intake i try removing that or adjusting the air band, but i never seem to find the root cause. Has any body else ran into this issue. The most recent furnace i ran into this on was a Nordyne M#M1BA 066A BW but i run into it on other Nordyne mobile home units as well.
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The burners have to have a good ground (or more accurately a bonding strap) to the control .
Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
"Is this before or after you fired the parts cannon at it?" - senior tech
I'm tired of these mediocre "semi flammable" refrigerants. If we're going to do it let's do it right.
Unless we change direction we are likely to end up where we are going.
"It's not new, it's better than new!" Maru.
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I use to blow my mind out with grounding, grounding, and more grounding, to only learn that grounding is important, but a clean and solid Neutral is also important and more often overlooked. Loose or floating neutrals all the way from the furnace to the breaker panel to the meter base need to be investigated, even possibly on the utilities' side, too. In the PRO section I can get deeper how to verify neutral issues, but in the open forums we are not permitted. May want to research that as a possible cause.
I will agree that those units that incorporate the flame sensing and HSI into one is frustrating and sometimes more difficult to troubleshoot, but I do not find them less reliable. I am personally not familiar with your particular Nordyne equipment, but dealt with this style of flame sensing with some Rheem furnaces and Trane uses this successfully with their Voyager rooftop equipment, do have a lot of radiant tube heaters that utilize this method without issues, too.
Not to be demeaning to mobile home/modular folks, but many of those style of residences I serviced in the past were not the cleanest or well kept places, thus I believe that housekeeping, cleanliness, and maintaining filters would help prevent rapid contamination of the HSI surface, burner surface, etc. I know many of these mobile home systems pull 100% outdoor air through the stack like Coleman systems, but those that are pulling combustion from the space are the ones that are most affected. Be aware or cognizant of the possibility of re-circulation of flue gases on systems like these, re-circulated flue gases can cause premature contamination of the flame sensors. And another thing, too, is that many trailer homes have the furnace stuffed near or in the laundry area, thus dealing with infiltration of VOC's from bleaches, fabric softeners, etc that rapidly contaminate the sensor and burners, too.
So may not be the furnaces, per say, but the natural habitat they are installed.
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Try filing the burner edge near the igniter. Insure the burner is not loose. Install a NEW ground wire to the control. Insure that the flame is not dropping out on you with covers in place. Insure that there is adequate makeup combustion air.
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Dirt on the ignitor can cause issues too.
Ruud/Rheem's early HSI furnaces had the ignitor mounted horizontally and issued a "fix" that turned the ignitor to the vertical and solved a lot of issues. Part of this is that for rectification to take place in a meaningful manner, the "sensor" (or the catcher of electrons) must be very much smaller of a target than the "pitcher" of electrons. Too big of a target and you get a large A/C component in the circuit.
“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
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Thank you to everyone for the help, filing the burner edge actually fixed my most recent run in with this issue but I’m sure there will be more to come.
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Originally Posted by
slctech
I use to blow my mind out with grounding, grounding, and more grounding, to only learn that grounding is important, but a clean and solid Neutral is also important and more often overlooked. Loose or floating neutrals all the way from the furnace to the breaker panel to the meter base need to be investigated, even possibly on the utilities' side, too. In the PRO section I can get deeper how to verify neutral issues, but in the open forums we are not permitted. May want to research that as a possible cause.
I will agree that those units that incorporate the flame sensing and HSI into one is frustrating and sometimes more difficult to troubleshoot, but I do not find them less reliable. I am personally not familiar with your particular Nordyne equipment, but dealt with this style of flame sensing with some Rheem furnaces and Trane uses this successfully with their Voyager rooftop equipment, do have a lot of radiant tube heaters that utilize this method without issues, too.
Not to be demeaning to mobile home/modular folks, but many of those style of residences I serviced in the past were not the cleanest or well kept places, thus I believe that housekeeping, cleanliness, and maintaining filters would help prevent rapid contamination of the HSI surface, burner surface, etc. I know many of these mobile home systems pull 100% outdoor air through the stack like Coleman systems, but those that are pulling combustion from the space are the ones that are most affected. Be aware or cognizant of the possibility of re-circulation of flue gases on systems like these, re-circulated flue gases can cause premature contamination of the flame sensors. And another thing, too, is that many trailer homes have the furnace stuffed near or in the laundry area, thus dealing with infiltration of VOC's from bleaches, fabric softeners, etc that rapidly contaminate the sensor and burners, too.
So may not be the furnaces, per say, but the natural habitat they are installed.
Why does every M/H have a cat litter box in front of the furnace?
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Most MH require a MH closed combustion Furnace and high static blowers etc.. most resi dont work in common MH..they sell MH applicable systems for these situations or you have to use 90%er..
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Originally Posted by
theoldscroll
Why does every M/H have a cat litter box in front of the furnace?
AIR FRESHENER! ;-)
“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
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The circuit ground has nothing to do with flame rectification. It is only for personal safety.
The internal ground, or bonding, provides a path for the flame rectification circuit. Clean the burner bonding wire connection because it completes the circuit from the flame sensor through the flame to the controller.
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https://www.hvac20.com/ High efficiency equipment alone does not provide home comfort and efficiency. HVAC2.0 is a process for finding the real needs of the house and the occupants. Offer the customer a menu of work to address their problems and give them a probability of success.
Find contractors with specialized training in combustion analysis, residential system performance, air flow, and duct optimization https://www.myhomecomfort.org/
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Originally Posted by
kdean1
The circuit ground has nothing to do with flame rectification. It is only for personal safety.
The internal ground, or bonding, provides a path for the flame rectification circuit. Clean the burner bonding wire connection because it completes the circuit from the flame sensor through the flame to the controller.
Ground is a term that gets misused way too much. People look at me like I'm nuts when I refer to it as a bonding wire.
Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
Last edited by R600a; 12-02-2020 at 06:10 PM.
"Is this before or after you fired the parts cannon at it?" - senior tech
I'm tired of these mediocre "semi flammable" refrigerants. If we're going to do it let's do it right.
Unless we change direction we are likely to end up where we are going.
"It's not new, it's better than new!" Maru.
-
Originally Posted by
R600a
Ground is a term that gets misused way too much. People look at me like I'm nuts when I refer to it as a bonding wire.
Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
But we ARE nuts.
*********
https://www.hvac20.com/ High efficiency equipment alone does not provide home comfort and efficiency. HVAC2.0 is a process for finding the real needs of the house and the occupants. Offer the customer a menu of work to address their problems and give them a probability of success.
Find contractors with specialized training in combustion analysis, residential system performance, air flow, and duct optimization https://www.myhomecomfort.org/
-
"Is this before or after you fired the parts cannon at it?" - senior tech
I'm tired of these mediocre "semi flammable" refrigerants. If we're going to do it let's do it right.
Unless we change direction we are likely to end up where we are going.
"It's not new, it's better than new!" Maru.
-
I hate that we're forced to use inaccurate misleading terminology because otherwise nobody will know what you're talking about.
Sent from the Okie state usin Tapatalk
"Is this before or after you fired the parts cannon at it?" - senior tech
I'm tired of these mediocre "semi flammable" refrigerants. If we're going to do it let's do it right.
Unless we change direction we are likely to end up where we are going.
"It's not new, it's better than new!" Maru.