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Thread: Inducer is full - now what ?

  1. #21
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    If its a new install, i would guess there is pvc shaving stuck in the drain ports. Gonna have to pull the tubing off the collector box and clean it out

  2. #22
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    The collector box gasket has failed or the box is cracked causing all the rust in the cabinet. The drain on the exhaust transition is or was plugged causing the condensate to drain into the inducer. The drain hose that may be plugged is just to the right of the pressure switch. It may also be possible that the two plastic drain tubes inside the drain trap are plugged. The plastic drain tubes sit inside the drain trap and can drain easily be removed and cleaned out.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacvegas View Post
    Drains are plugged, or no vent after the internal trap that hangs in the blower compartment.

    See that rust on the left side?
    That indicates that the collector box hasn't been draining. The collector box gasket designed for light duty condensate, not being flooded by a plugged trap.


    https://hvacdist.com/psr-01-collecto...now-available/

    Is a somewhat related bulletin, and discusses proper drainage for this unit.
    Had one of those on a slum lord house...
    After fiddling with it a few times... and talking to the local Goodman shop...
    Convinced the owner to put a new furnace in.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *The value of comfort, over the long term; leave economic choices behind!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  4. #24
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    This furnace is not new nor recently installed. I don't know how old it but I would guess it's been there maybe ten years. No history is available before last winter. The inducer motor probably wasn't bad, and in my prosecution; the owner did say that he heard water running whenever there was a call for heat. <g>

    But I'm over 1000 miles away and I have my own sh!t to deal with. The old inducer was found half filled with water during it's replacement. I was just looking to see if there was any way water could have filled it - other than what I could think of on my own.

    I'll have a look at it by Halloween and maybe just do a 'general rebuild' while I'm at it. The new inducer resolved at least the symptom - so far anyway. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    Socialism is a zombie. It never dies - even though it is constantly decaying and decomposing.

  5. #25
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    And just like that - more info arrives! <g>

    I came up with a list of questions which had come to me, that was a while ago, and just now received some answers.

    The house was recently painted and was repeatedly pressure washed before and during that six-week process.

    The neighbor had sprinklers added and one of them had to be subsequently re-aimed because it was hitting this house.

    One answer that I didn't get was whether the AC drain was directly above that rusty spot in the furnace vestibule.
    PHM
    --------
    Socialism is a zombie. It never dies - even though it is constantly decaying and decomposing.

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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    This furnace is not new nor recently installed. I don't know how old it but I would guess it's been there maybe ten years. No history is available before last winter. The inducer motor probably wasn't bad, and in my prosecution; the owner did say that he heard water running whenever there was a call for heat. <g>

    But I'm over 1000 miles away and I have my own sh!t to deal with. The old inducer was found half filled with water during it's replacement. I was just looking to see if there was any way water could have filled it - other than what I could think of on my own.

    I'll have a look at it by Halloween and maybe just do a 'general rebuild' while I'm at it. The new inducer resolved at least the symptom - so far anyway. <g>

    Why are you servicing a furnace over 1000 miles away?

    This probably isn’t your issue but when I first stepped into my internship it was the middle of a cold snap, the drain for this furnace ran outside then into the ground. The drain naturally froze or plugged up and back filled the inducer motor.

    More realistically from the above posts, sounds like the drain could’ve plugged up or is in the process of plugging up and back fills. Also check the inducer gasket or general tightness of the inducer. I had a few units (can’t remember the brand) but they were generics and the inducer would vibrate loose and cause a lot of condensate leaking in the cabinet.

    Anytime I show up and hear sloshing in the inducer, I always check the drain though.
    “Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”

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  9. #27
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    When this first was posted, I was going to say "sidewall discharge....garden hose lying there....bored mischievous children......."
    So maybe pressure washing or lawn sprinkler.
    They would overwhelm drain tubes and washed PVC dust and dirt into the drains.

    Had no heat call and the discharge Tee at the furnace had a ball in it that just fit inside a 2" PVC.
    Actually had to think that perhaps that belonged there. Some early 90%'s had a float ball in the Tee to plug the discharge if the trap was plugged, that would shut the furnace down.

    Not the case here, went outside to the discharge and found numerous dirt clods in the pipe. HO had 5 year old twin boys. I told HO this could happen again.
    He said that they would be 6 years old next season and not do things like this anymore.

    I just smiled and said sure they won't. (His only kids BTW)

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  11. #28
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    Also, the fact that the closely fitting ball made it down to the furnace confirmed that the piping had good slope with no tight turns. I use 2 45's to make a 90 for less resistance.
    So I appreciated the twin's testing of my piping install!

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  13. #29
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    The rust on the left side is from condensation dripping down from the intake pipe during the summer months. The compartment becomes slightly negatively pressurized when the blower is running during cooling call. Humid air from outside is drawn through intake pipe where it condenses in the cool basement. Replaced several gas valves under warranty as they sit under that intake opening. Our solution is to add a collar to the intake pipe to collect and drain that condensate.

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  15. #31
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    PHM, haven’t heard from you in a few days.... You walking to the customers house?

    Or did you figure it out with the pressure washing being done etc. post #25
    “Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”

  16. #32
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    Walking? Nope; I not even walking to the airport to get on the plane. And not even flying to the job site for a couple more weeks.

    Still; no problems with the furnace last season, repeated pressure washing of the house by the slow-motion painter (I think it took him 5-6 WEEKS to complete the painting. And the painting job was 'just the trim'. <g>), and the new inducer has worked ever since without issue . . . . sure makes me think the whole issue was: wash-water-down-the-exhaust-vent. <g>

    Nonetheless; I'll poke and prod and peer in a few weeks. And let you know what I find. That rust on the floor of the vestibule bears some investigation too.

    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by Bombboy90 View Post
    PHM, haven’t heard from you in a few days.... You walking to the customers house?

    Or did you figure it out with the pressure washing being done etc. post #25
    Last edited by Poodle Head Mikey; 10-05-2020 at 11:55 AM.
    PHM
    --------
    Socialism is a zombie. It never dies - even though it is constantly decaying and decomposing.

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  18. #33
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    PHM, the guy that replaced the inducer that noticed it was full of water, did he notice the collector box was full to the height of inducer opening or if the box was mostly empty and the flood was contained in the inducer. Depending on the answer could eliminate a source of water.

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  20. #34
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    We do not have a lot of condensing furnaces around here... not cold enough...

    We (my company) see an inducer on a condensing furnace full of water, probably, once every couple of years...

    When we do... the first thing to do... is clean out the entire condensate drain system... assume it is clogged.
    Which usually turns out to be true.

    OTOH... we did have one... like what PHM thinks...
    Basement system, exhaust was a few feet above ground (remember, we do not get much snow)...
    And a sprinkler head not too far away.

    Obvious repair...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *The value of comfort, over the long term; leave economic choices behind!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  21. #35
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    Inducer only holding water. I agree with your logic which is why I asked him to check for those things specifically - but I also considered that the inducer has no drain and the collector box Might slowly empty while the unit is not producing condensate - but then have the slow-collector-box drain overwhelmed when the unit Was making condensate.

    My instincts lean toward the easy answer being the most likely - but I'll still have a bit of a tear down in a coupe weeks when I can do it myself. I'll take a collector box gasket with me so I can see if there any yak accumulated in the secondary. It's been cold enough to use the furnace recently and there's been no problems since the inducer was replaced.

    Which reminds me: I always have to pause before I say: "inducer". For years, in my experience, they were called "venters" or maybe "ventors" - so a "venter motor" or "venter assembly" is my natural verbal go-to. When did it become "inducer"? <g>

    PHM
    -------


    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    PHM, the guy that replaced the inducer that noticed it was full of water, did he notice the collector box was full to the height of inducer opening or if the box was mostly empty and the flood was contained in the inducer. Depending on the answer could eliminate a source of water.
    PHM
    --------
    Socialism is a zombie. It never dies - even though it is constantly decaying and decomposing.

  22. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Inducer only holding water. I agree with your logic which is why I asked him to check for those things specifically - but I also considered that the inducer has no drain and the collector box Might slowly empty while the unit is not producing condensate - but then have the slow-collector-box drain overwhelmed when the unit Was making condensate.

    My instincts lean toward the easy answer being the most likely - but I'll still have a bit of a tear down in a coupe weeks when I can do it myself. I'll take a collector box gasket with me so I can see if there any yak accumulated in the secondary. It's been cold enough to use the furnace recently and there's been no problems since the inducer was replaced.

    Which reminds me: I always have to pause before I say: "inducer". For years, in my experience, they were called "venters" or maybe "ventors" - so a "venter motor" or "venter assembly" is my natural verbal go-to. When did it become "inducer"? <g>

    PHM
    -------
    As we know... on an 80% furnace... the purpose of the motor is to induce (start) the draft... and the natural action of a draft will keep the flue gases going up and out.

    OTOH...

    On a condensing furnace... the motor actually blows the exhaust all the way out... (which, is why one should strictly follow the PVC sizing recommendations).
    Perhaps for a condensing furnace... vent motor or boost motor... would be a technically accurate term...

    However we know: if you go to the supply house and use a technically accurate, yet not 'normal' term... they will not have the part...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *The value of comfort, over the long term; leave economic choices behind!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  23. #37
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    Actually I believe that inducer is used because it induces draft "through" the furnace. Neither 80 or 90% furnaces will work without the draft "induced" by these little fans. When I think of a "vent fan or venter as PHM said I generally think of a motor outside the equipment to work instead of the natural draft of a chimney as in the case of a standing pilot that is side vented or installed on a chimney that will not properly vent for a number of reasons.

  24. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Actually I believe that inducer is used because it induces draft "through" the furnace. Neither 80 or 90% furnaces will work without the draft "induced" by these little fans. When I think of a "vent fan or venter as PHM said I generally think of a motor outside the equipment to work instead of the natural draft of a chimney as in the case of a standing pilot that is side vented or installed on a chimney that will not properly vent for a number of reasons.
    So you are thinking of something like...

    A Tjurnland fan...

    The one that literally sucks the exhaust from an 80% furnace and pumps it out???

    The part about the condensing furnace draft inducer actually pumping the exhaust out...
    I got that from Jim Davis at the NCI combustion class.
    If you look carefully... you will notice: the DIM on a condensing furnace has a larger motor (more capacity)...
    Why???
    Because it has to suck the combustion air in, as well as push the exhaust out...
    And there is not always a draft on a PVC pipe... some of them run almost dead horizontal...
    And I have seen some installed going downhill away from the furnace (they still blow the exhaust out, and the DT rise on the furnace was within range).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *The value of comfort, over the long term; leave economic choices behind!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  25. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    As we know... on an 80% furnace... the purpose of the motor is to induce (start) the draft... and the natural action of a draft will keep the flue gases going up and out.

    OTOH...

    On a condensing furnace... the motor actually blows the exhaust all the way out... (which, is why one should strictly follow the PVC sizing recommendations).
    Perhaps for a condensing furnace... vent motor or boost motor... would be a technically accurate term...

    However we know: if you go to the supply house and use a technically accurate, yet not 'normal' term... they will not have the part...
    You're hanging out at the wrong supply houses. We just modified a Honeywell RM7800 chassis and a Fireye E110 chassis to plug into a RM7800 bench tester and verify the E110 flame safeguard operation(programmer, flame signal, and chassis)from the RM7800 tester.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

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    Why is it that those who complain the most contribute the least?
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  27. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    You're hanging out at the wrong supply houses. We just modified a Honeywell RM7800 chassis and a Fireye E110 chassis to plug into a RM7800 bench tester and verify the E110 flame safeguard operation(programmer, flame signal, and chassis)from the RM7800 tester.
    We are currently suffering from 'counter guy arrogance' issues at the supply houses...

    Some of the guys behind the counter... who are inherently lazy... and have attitudes...
    Are literally playing games with customers... for 'sport'...

    I was in one place a few weeks ago...
    Customer was having one of those days when he could not remember details...
    And the guy behind the counter was laying it on him hard...

    Manager had to come out and tell the counter guy to back off...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *The value of comfort, over the long term; leave economic choices behind!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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