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Thread: Need New System Help (Gosh I'm losing my mind) - American Standard

  1. #1
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    Confused Need New System Help (Gosh I'm losing my mind) - American Standard

    Hi. First, I really appreciate this forum and the helpful experts here. You're doing a great thing for humanity. (seriously)

    I've been at this for over 2 weeks now trying to wrap my head around HVAC. I'm needed to make a decision quick.
    I'm in an odd situation where I want to renovate the home and expand the square footage a bit and add 2 bedrooms upstairs (which might be a shell for a while as I don't need it). Got a few estimates but the guy I want to go with has me perplexed with specs.

    American Standard....

    FURNACE: S9V2C100U5PSA 100K, 5 Ton, 2-Stage (there is a 4 Ton with exact same specs and IDK what the diff is)
    A/C: 4A7A6048J1000A Silver 16, 4 Ton, 1-Stage. Now leaning toward 4A7A7048B1000A Gold 17, 4 ton, 2-Stage
    Coil: 4PXCCU60BS3HA 5 Ton Another option seemed to be 4PXCDU60BS3HA (also 5 ton)

    TXV will be used.

    1. Furnace - I think I'm set on the furnace. I think the sizing will be right-ish. Other estimates agreed. Tho' IDK why he chose a 5-tonnage vs 4-tonnage.

    2. A/C - I have a 3 Ton now but want to expand the house, take down walls, etc. I'm a 'tad' concerned about this jump and think I want to go with the Gold 17 2-Stage for comfort AND thinking (maybe) the 2-Stage function might counter if it's oversized. They don't make 1/2 sizes in the 2-stage

    3. Coil - 5 Ton This is where I hit the brakes and get nervous. I read the coil shouldn't be more than 1/2 ton difference. Seems there are no 4.5 Ton AS coils. He stated the 5-Ton coil is what the supplier put together and what will give me a good SEER. Stated AHRI matched system.

    I told him I don't do the wrong thing for me just to attain some pristine SEER number at the expense of comfort and problems. He stated that the larger coil wil help with dehumidification also. This is counter to what I read.
    So I'm confused. Mostly worried about the Coil being a full Ton larger.

    Unsure what to do about any of this. I sadly can't wait till remodel is done to do this either. Any thoughts are MUCH appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Isn’t it going to be expensive redoing the ductwork in your home for the larger unit?
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

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  4. #4
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    It's a good match. The 4PXC"C"U60 matches the furnace's C cabinet width of 21". The 4PXC"D" you chose will hang over the furnace 3.5".

    Also, you really need to keep in mind that this year has not been good for coil inventory. You're lucky to get a good matched coil. Last month it was a struggle even getting coils period.
    I tried to order a particular coil and was told the factory won't be shipping out that particular model for over 30 days. You can thank the "COVID Effect" for this.

    Personally I' wouldn't worry one bit about the matchup that they provided, because it's good. I would be much more concerned about your ducting, quality of installation and load calculation.

    I just looked and can't find the S9V2100 furnace with the 4 ton blower available either. So, I wouldn't complain too much, at least you can get equipment. If it's not what you want, maybe wait until next year when inventory catches up.

    Don't think this is Trane/AmStd. only, all mfg's are low on inventory.

    Again, I'm not worried one bit with the match up they provided you. I have a coil that can go up to 3.5 tons on a 2 stage 2 ton unit. My home is extremely comfortable at 76-77 49%RH. Imagine that, a 3.5 ton coil running at 1.4 tons on low stage??? Wheeeew!
    Last edited by mgenius33; 09-24-2020 at 06:15 PM.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates

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  6. #5
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    One thing to warn you on S9 furnaces: the return air opening on the side of the furnace is very small, 14x18 instead of the standard 16x25. You can't just through a filter cabinet beside the furnace, you'll really be hurting for airflow. For 4 ton, you'd want side and bottom with a transition to your 20x25 air cleaner cabinet. Don't use a 1" on that. Our supplier sells a 6" tall box for under the furnace plus a transition from the side opening and the box to a media cabinet. I've seen guys post on here with the S8 and S9 and their air cleaner right against the furnace. Customers may ask when they change the filter next year why only a part of it is dirty.

    Otherwise, the S9V2 us a great furnace. I started one up today.

    Getting a 21" wide furnace, I'd get a 21" wide cased coil. Most installers don't properly install a wider coil anyway. The PXC line is a high efficiency model dedicated upflow & downflow to optimize refrigerant flow.

  7. #6
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    Mgenius33 - Thank you. I can't get through winter with this furnace. The A/C is working fine (for a 24? year old unit) but the Furnace is near condemnable and currently running in 'safe mode'. Literally the installer plugged one of the burner ports. 125k with 80k out.

    But it's working and I have 'some time' but don't want to go more than 2 weeks. I'm good with waiting on a component a bit. This has caused me so much stress/anxiety - you have no idea.

    One person says a coil sized a ton higher will help with humidity, other sites I read say it doesn't nuke humidity as well, etc. etc.

    I am just concerned about the 4 Ton A/C size. I plan to expand though and when I rough count up the square feet, it might be about right.

    You don't have any issues with humidity, etc? I'm more and more thinking a 2-stage a/c might goldilocks this for me a tad.

    Figured if I get the Gold 17, 2-Stage a/c that perhaps it might counter any 'too big' issues at least for a while. I probably have that wrong.

  8. #7
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    BaldLoonie - I'm glad you came here! Seems you do a lot of AS installs.

    My installer I like said the furnace will be on little legs and said something about a 6" box that would raise things up so it sounds like what you're saying. I'm shocked the 20x25 box/filter is too large for the furnace! That's how my old furnace was like - the filter was blocked by about 4" horiz. of metal inside.

    I 'think' you are suggesting to make this work, he'd have to pull the media box a bit away from the furnace and make a channel of sorts to the furnace so the filter box is 'away' from the furnace. Yes?

    And do you think this system is OK? IDK what would happen if I closed off vents to 2 extra unused bedrooms though (I tend to do this). Installer said he wouldn't go lower than a 3.5 Ton which would put me to Silver 16 Single Stage. I guess it's really between that 3.5 and the Gold 17 2-Stage 4-Ton. (surprised they don't come in half)

    I tried playing around with Ahri but I have a roof leak and a million things failing at once and I wasn't 'getting' it and nearly burst into tears LOL!

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by meagain View Post
    Hi. First, I really appreciate this forum and the helpful experts here. You're doing a great thing for humanity. (seriously)

    I've been at this for over 2 weeks
    now trying to wrap my head around HVAC.
    I'm needed to make a decision quick.

    I'm in an odd situation where I want to renovate the home and
    expand the square footage a bit and add 2 bedrooms upstairs
    (which might be a shell for a while as I don't need it).

    Got a few estimates but the guy I want to go with has me perplexed with specs.

    American Standard....

    FURNACE: S9V2C100U5PSA 100K, 5 Ton, 2-Stage
    (there is a 4 Ton with exact same specs and IDK what the diff is)

    A/C: 4A7A6048J1000A Silver 16, 4 Ton, 1-Stage. Now leaning toward 4A7A7048B1000A Gold 17, 4 ton, 2-Stage
    Coil: 4PXCCU60BS3HA 5 Ton Another option seemed to be 4PXCDU60BS3HA (also 5 ton)

    TXV will be used.

    Unsure what to do about any of this. I sadly can't wait till remodel is done to do this either. Any thoughts are MUCH appreciated.
    FOLLOW THE PROCEDURES

    or just guess & remain LOST
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    Designer Dan __ It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with Some Art. _ _ KEEP IT SIMPLE & SINCERE ___ __ www.mysimplifiedhvac.com ___ __ Define the Building Envelope & Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows & Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  10. #9
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    Question - when you all say it's a 'good match', do you mean AHRI match? Or that it makes sense and it's 'ok' to have this 5 ton coil on a 4 ton a/c?

    I'll ask him about the ductwork which of course not all is exposed by far. Entire half of the house has the ducts enclosed in basement ceiling drywall. I 'am' worried about too much blowing air through the system.

    Moreso, i worry about going from a 3-ton to a 4-ton a/c (but plan to remodel here) and me not freezing. I tend to run cold and have doors opening 24/7 for dogs.
    Do you guys think my uninformed theory about the 4-Ton being a 2-Stage might allow it to behave more like a 3-3.5 Ton has any validity? Thank you!

  11. #10
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    When I go to AHRI and punch in the a/c model number, it only gives me 48,000 coils vs. the 60,000k that was quoted. So is 4pxccu60bs not an ahri match then? This is so astoundingly difficult. And 'everywhere' I keep reading the coil and the a/c have to match so I'm still nervousing over this.

    I wish they just made 3 systems. Period. And ability to adjust the system per the house.
    And no one does these vast calculations - at least not around me. Course in my case it doesn't matter because I plan to remodel. As it is, I'm looking into adding 'some' insulation to the attic and I'm nearly afraid to tell the HVAC guy at this point.

  12. #11
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    This is the transition our supplier has made and there's a 6" riser box to pull air from under as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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  14. #12
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    I didn't fully understand if you are adding 2 rooms to a second floor or if you are converting attic space into a second floor. Either way the duct will have to be changed to get the air to the 2 added rooms. I would keep those 2 rooms separate as they will probably have a different load than the rest of the house and give you more control of the space. If there is already a 2nd floor and you are just adding to it then convert the whole second floor to it's own system which will let you down size the main floor system and give you better control of heating/cooling upstairs.

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  16. #13
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    2 bedrooms & a bath would be new construction into an existing very low attic space. But I'll likely just build a shell for that or finish it and not really heat/cool it. Also will be adding a new bedroom/bath on first floor of house. And foyer situation would have to get a new duct as well. Maybe the 4 ton isn't too horrible an idea.

    Do you think a 2-stage 4-ton would 'act' like a 3 or 3.5 Ton single stage? I have some odd fear I'll be freezing in here in case something happens and reno is delayed or doesn't happen due to unforeseen circumstances. Upstairs is 1750 currently, single pane windows!, crap insulation - but under trees.
    Finished ceiling basement but I don't use it right now. Constantly opening/closing rear slider door for dogs and I admit I often leave it open enough for them while I meal prep, quick shower, etc. (I know that's bad) Chicago area.

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