Critical Room Control IRC controllers MS/TP interface

[Althecontrolguy]

I'm trying to interface the Critical Room Control, (CRC) IRC controllers to a Schneider Electric Struxureware system, the system is AS-P's, with b3 controllers, version 1.9.3. The interface, is an AS-P, that has the second comm port setup for BACnet MS/TP, which has the three IRC controllers on it. The first comm port has nothing, and there is a trane AHU coming in on the second Ethernet port of the AS-P via BACnet IP. The system was originally up and running in early January, and was working fine as far as the interface goes until mid April, when the local CRC rep upgraded the firmware. Within hours of him doing this, most of the rest of the BMS went offline. As soon as I removed the CRC IRC comm trunk from the AS-P, the rest of the controllers came back online. The upgrade to the IRC controllers, made some significant changes to the way the devices handled COV subscriptions, wiping out all of the previous COV's that had been put in. It also changed all of the object ID's for the I/O. These items have been corrected. The comm looked like a roller coaster I have since grounded the comm, and now have a nice square wave. The IRC controllers, are not capable of passing points between themselves, relying on the BMS to do this for them. I have since learned that these points can not be passed more than once a minute, without causing a broadcast storm. The controller that the points are being passed to, when there is a power dip, will now cause a broadcast storm, when it comes backup. Also, the comm is quite flaky, just opening the points up to see the values, will cause the controller to go offline. I now have a computer doing Wireshark captures on both the IP side, as well as the MS/TP side, but of course its been quite for the week that I've had it on. Anybody else have any experience interfacing to these controllers? Have you had problems with them?

[numbawunfela]

The system was originally up and running in early January, and was working fine as far as the interface goes until mid April, when the local CRC rep upgraded the firmware. Within hours of him doing this, most of the rest of the BMS went offline.

sounds like dimwit needs to come back and downgrade the firmware... or come back and put the patch his office put out on the crap firmware he put in.

[Althecontrolguy]

I would agree, the only problem, he is a "BACnet guru", (his words not mine) and has determined the problem lies with me. I am getting no cooperation from him whatsoever.

[control$]

I would agree, the only problem, he is a "BACnet guru", (his words not mine) and has determined the problem lies with me. I am getting no cooperation from him whatsoever.

That's where Wireshark's (or equivalent) is your friend. Document every step and copy everyone. Hopefully it ends there and someone "finds" a patch. If not it can really get ugly...just make sure the customer is on your side.

[numbawunfela]

Yeah, Control$ is on the right track.
Sending data to the dimwit's office with a sincere 'I am not sure but something seems off. We had no one in particular upgrade firmware and now we have all these problems and wireshark tells me this...' even if you cannot get the answer from wireshark, just having the caps to send to them will get good results. They will have someone who can read them. The combination of innocent sincerety, competency, and going direct to the main office - bypassing the roadblock - should get better results.
They may send you the patches via a slightly more humble dimwit with a thank you as they are going to need that kind of data to head off issues that their other techs are likely seeing.
You are surely not the only one. But the combination of obscurity (this product is not everywhere) and newness (brand new firmware) will make it hard to get answers from anyone besides the manufacturer.

[zzip7]

innocent sincerety

This has been my solution to all idiot startup/equipment reps. Usually gets results eventually. Arguing with them never works.

[theoldman]

Who is the Schneider rep in this story?

[CommError]

I agree with control$, Wireshark (or equivalent) is your friend and will help you out. Keep the customer on your side and talk directly to to a REAL rep. If you feel that rep is incompetent, go above him/her. Sometimes reverting is helpful until a new verified patch is made. I've had to do that several times.

[Althecontrolguy]

If anybody is interested, the firmware was back dated to the previous version, and has been working fine for about six weeks. While I can't prove it, I'm pretty certain, the rep did not perform the original update per the manufacture's procedure.

[numbawunfela]

Thanks for the update. Definitely interested