Basic Mitsubishi But...

[Sapote]

This is the cable I used on the install. We use it on all installs.

It's rated at 600vac, so all good.

[Sapote]

Nothing spectacular or special about this install. So, why is it on the Wall of Pride?

Sorry if I missed it, but still don't know why it is on the wall instead of ground.

[GenesisRefrig]

Sorry if I missed it, but still don't know why it is on the wall instead of ground.

To get it above the snow level. Ground stands are not high enough

[actech2]

So.Cal and Florida guys going “snow legs?? Wth are snow legs } lol. The joys of regional rule And application changes.

[R600a]

So.Cal and Florida guys going “snow legs?? Wth are snow legs } lol. The joys of regional rule And application changes.

In florida you have to be sure to get it above the 1/10" snow levels.

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[R600a]

This is the cable I used on the install. We use it on all installs.

Hey how did you get them to put your user name on the wire label Genesis?

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[GenesisRefrig]

Hey how did you get them to put your user name on the wire label Genesis?

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I know! Great, huh?

I figured someone would catch that. 🍺 for you.

[BALloyd]

Hey Champ

You should really brush up on your reading comphrension. Right in your own post it says the following:

"A magnetic motor starter having the coil wired to a motor control circuit (tapped from the motor branch circuit) is not a Class 1 circuit. See 725.3(F) and 430.41."

Let me spell it out for you.....the motor control circuit power on a minisplit is almost always tapped from the motor branch circuit and therefore is not a Class 1 circuit.

So once again you have posted incorrect information.

Just like in this thread where you posted a broad sweeping comment that 600V insulation is required on any 240VAC circuit, which of course is false.





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On a mini split, the outdoor compressor motor is controlled by the indoor circuit; therefore, the cable connecting the outdoor to the indoor is classed as Remote Control circuit under NEC codes. So it is either class1, or class 2, or class 3, and we shall find out.
Class 2 is for remote control under 30v, such as door bell or HVAV thermostat.
Class 3 is for remote control with higher power than Class 2, such as home theater and sound system.
This leaves us only Class1 in this case which covers to 600v limit. The mini split cable carries 240v and it cannot be either class 2 nor class 3. (Unless BALLoyd knows a CLASS 4 for remote-control that I don't.)

So you have no other choice here; the mini split cable also cannot be classified as the common Power and Lighting cable, because it has remote control signals.

Conclusion: mini split cable connecting indoor to outdoor units is Class 1.

Your reading comprehension is still poor. What part about if the starter coil control circuit being powered off the unit branch circuit don't you understand???? The indoor unit gets its power, using the models you posted previously as an example, from the outdoor unit. Therefore the control circuit is powered exclusively from the units branch circuit and as I pointed out previously, is not considered to be a Class 1 circuit according to the NEC or CEC.

Yes Mitsubishi requests 600 VAC rated wire. The NEC/CEC codes do not require it because it is not a Class 1 circuit as you are trying to claim and does not violate the code.

[Sapote]

Therefore the control circuit is powered exclusively from the units branch circuit and as I pointed out previously, is not considered to be a Class 1 circuit according to the NEC or CEC.

OK, if the motor control (compressor and fan) circuit is powered/controlled exclusively from the unit's brand circuit (instead of the indoor unit) then do this: try to run the compressor and fan without the indoor unit connected.

Per NEC Codes, the cable connecting the outdoor to the indoor units must be classed under one of these: Power and Lighting; Class1, or 2, or 3 Remote Control circuits. You have to tell the inspector which one. For sure you cannot tell him that the said cable is Power and Light.

[Pnasty]

Nice job Genesis. Jobs like that are an experience.

[BALloyd]

Man you are slow......do you even know what is meant by a dedicated branch circuit?

What part do you not understand about how the power comes into the outdoor unit on the branch circuit and then goes to the indoor unit from the outdoor unit. Yes it does communicate back from the indoor unit to the outdoor unit, but it first comes from the branch circuit coming into the outodor unit.


If you remove the power from the outdoor unit then there is no power to the indoor unit either.

OK, if the motor control (compressor and fan) circuit is powered/controlled exclusively from the unit's brand circuit (instead of the indoor unit) then do this: try to run the compressor and fan without the indoor unit connected.

Per NEC Codes, the cable connecting the outdoor to the indoor units must be classed under one of these: Power and Lighting; Class1, or 2, or 3 Remote Control circuits. You have to tell the inspector which one. For sure you cannot tell him that the said cable is Power and Light.

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[Sapote]

Good luck in trying to tell the inspector all of this.

[BALloyd]

Good luck in trying to tell the inspector all of this.

I don't need to tell an inspector anything. I personally would use 600 VAC cable on a Mitsubushi install because that is what Mitsubishi asks for in their installation manual. But I will gladly keep using 300VAC rated NMD90 for 240 VAC circuits in my house for things such as baseboard heat because that is all that is required by the CEC.

Its ok though. You are the one who refuses to admit they are wrong...in multiple threads.

You made a blanket statement in this thread that all 240 volts circuits require 600 Volt wire which is wrong as NMD90 would be then be a code violation. Then you moved the goal posts to fit your narrative and continue to ignore the fact that your original statement was patently incorrect.

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[GenesisRefrig]

Good luck in trying to tell the inspector all of this.

So, on the older Mitsubishi units, where we ran a 2 conductor thermostat wire between the indoor and outdoor units, we should have run 600v cable?

In today’s units, the interconnect cable carries 220vac at about 1 amp to run a blower motor. It also carries less than 12vdc for communication. The interconnect cable is not a branch circuit. It’s part of the system. It’s on the load side of the disconnect.

[Sapote]

So, on the older Mitsubishi units, where we ran a 2 conductor thermostat wire between the indoor and outdoor units, we should have run 600v cable?

Without a circuit schematic it's hard to say. Does the outdoor unit supplies power (120v or 240v) to the indoor unit, and this power conductors share the same conduit with the 2 thermostat wires? If yes then this circuit is Class 1 which has 600v limit.

In today’s units, the interconnect cable carries 220vac at about 1 amp to run a blower motor. It also carries less than 12vdc for communication. The interconnect cable is not a branch circuit. It’s part of the system. It’s on the load side of the disconnect.

This is the exact definition of Class 1.

As said before, If BALLoyd believes this cable is not Class1, then he should say which class it's belong to; Power and Light? No way.

[GenesisRefrig]

Sapote,

Quick question... Why do you feel it’s necessary to hijack threads? This thread had absolutely nothing to do with wiring.

The vacuum pump thread had absolutely nothing to do with calibration.

Maybe you should start new threads with topics you feel are important.

[Sapote]

Sorry but in the original post you asked for inputs if you missed anything. I pointed to the cable looked a little skinny and it should be Class 1, then someone said it was not required, and so on.

[Sapote]

I don't need to tell an inspector anything.

Wow, so what if the inspector failed the installation?

[Tcarswell]

Cant say I've ever heard of vibration in normal circumstances. My office unit is mounted like this and you cant tell it's running ever.