defective central AC system?

[NETWizz]

Nobody in my area. Isn't 64.9'F out of one the first registers that comes off the trunk rather warm?

If it is 84'F in the house then it is about right.

[afr]

If it is 84'F in the house then it is about right.

73'F

[comfortdoc]

That is an issue if thy are testing temp at the indoor unit.

[pecmsg]

Personally, I blame the manufacturers for the race to the bottom.

Consumers started the race to the bottom!

[afr]

So I've got the AC installer coming out next Monday. First thing I'm going to ask is that he check the delta-t and also check the temp of the insulated copper line outside before adding any refrigerant, if needed. Is there any way to determine the country of manufacture(not assembly) of my Ingersoll-Rand coil? Anything else I should have them check?

[pecmsg]

Unfortunately just the temperature means nothing!
Start telling the tech how to do his job can get real ugly!

[stumpdigger]

Sounds reasonable. But how about compressors and especially coils not manufactured or assembled in Mexico or China. Does that even exist? Personally, I blame the manufacturers for the race to the bottom.

Blame the politicians that are getting rich for non-US products.

[afr]

Sticker states coil assembled the U.S. Any idea where it was manufactured?

[afr]

Unfortunately just the temperature means nothing!
Start telling the tech how to do his job can get real ugly!

The delta-t figure means nothing? The temp of the insulated copper pipe outside means nothing?

[pecmsg]

The delta-t figure means nothing? The temp of the insulated copper pipe outside means nothing?

Need Pressures withit!

[afr]

Service tech just finished. tstat set to 73F,maintains 73F 86'F outside-supply 64.5F,return 73.8F(low delta t) 110.2low,281.4high,38.9sh,1.3sc evap coil replaced 2 yrs. ago(on 5 yr old system) low on R410 and added UV dye Schrader valve and cap looked fine condenser coil was dirty and cleaned on both sides new supply temp 58.3'F Will do a leak search if system gets low on refrigerant again

[NETWizz]

Service tech just finished. tstat set to 73F,maintains 73F 86'F outside-supply 64.5F,return 73.8F 110.2low,281.4high,38.9sh,1.3sc evap coil replaced 2 yrs. ago(on 5 yr old system) low on R410 and added UV dye condenser coil was dirty and cleaned on both sides new supply temp 58.3'F Will do a leak search if system gets low on refrigerant again

It is running a lot better than it was... hate to burst your bubble, but you have a leak unless for the evaporator change they just pumped it down, did a coil swap, evacuate and let it ride without ever adjusting the charge. If it was charged right after the evap, you have another leak.

[afr]

I rechecked my invoice from 7/25/19(1 yr ago)when the inside coil was replaced-pumped down all refrigerant/replaced coil/brazed in new coil/pressure tested to 130psi/pumped into a vacuum of 340 microns/released charge and added an extra 6 oz.

[NETWizz]

6oz isn’t much, but obviously you still have a leak.


38sh and 1sc was very low. A good company would have leak-checked the unit again being you are in the next calendar year. Moreover the warranty is for defects in materials (usually 5 years on new coils) and labor (one year). Being you posted this on the 23rd that is proof enough. Honestly, it is so close anyway, that they need to find the leak. If it is somewhere other than the evaporator, they need to let you know. If it is the evaporator, they need to change it again free of charge in my opinion.

If I sell you something this year I never charge you again for the same item the entirety of next year. That is just how I roll. It is different in 2021 saying you had a one-year labor warranty from 2019, and you got. Some of 2019, ALL of 2020, and some of 2021.

I would call them back and be assertive and persistent but polite. If it is something other than the evaporator expect to pay

[afr]

Condenser-10 yr warranty/equipment-10 yr parts warranty/company gives a 2-yr parts and labor warranty. The amount of R410 that was added today was not on the invoice. I have a call in to get that amount.

[NETWizz]

Condenser-10 yr warranty/equipment-10 yr parts warranty/company gives a 2-yr parts and labor warranty. The amount of R410 that was added today was not on the invoice. I have a call in to get that amount.

Yes, 10 years for parts on new systems (if registered) or in California without registering... otherwise 5 years without registering. Parts that are replaced under warranty are generally not extended such that if you are 8 years into a 10 year warranty, you can expect only 2 years warranty on the part. Regardless, company has 2 years parts and labor. If you had to pay for the new evap coil, the coil should have a warranty for (5) years from the manufacturer.

Regardless, the two year warranty is good from the contractor in that you should not need to push for the warranty coverage if it even is an evaporator. If you have micro channel equipment, the condenser could be leaking. Never the less, the amount it leaked is not critical in that any system that got to 38sh and 1sc is quite low to the point it is not cooling within one year.

I would insist they come out and leak check the system. Dye is okay, but personally I have better luck with a sniffer or ultrasonic. Regardless, insist they do a leak search, and insist they leak search the evaporator if they do not go up and leak search it on their own. It seems to me the plan your contractor has is to give you some gas and get out of there to push you through the warranty period, and that is BS if that is the plan.

It would be different if they came and serviced it the first time and did not know it’s state of charge, BUT they knew they serviced it last to fix a leak AND they added refrigerant. Hence it is in fact low again, so you STILL have a leak meaning it was A) never fully fixed, B) there is another leak or new leak, or C) the new evaporator is defective. They owe it to you to A) finally complete the fix, B) point out a new leak, so you can pay to have it fixed, or C) warranty the evaporator if the new one is defective.

They need to get it fixed right, so next year your system cools and at most needs preventative maintenance (ideally).

[afr]

So if this is possibly an issue again with a defective Ingersoll-Rand coil, putting in another one seems pointless. Is there any way to tell from the serial and model number if this is a "problem" part?

[NETWizz]

Sometimes there are service bulletins and want not or even bad batches. Do not know for sure you have a problem with the evaporator coil again, but somehow your u it leaked out some refrigerant from somewhere based on them properly charging it in 2019 after a repair and it being low again on 2020.

Point of replacing it would be if it is confirmed leaking, they cannot all be bad... in theory if you replace one that is leaking, the new one should not be leaking. Additionally if it is covered by warranty of the part and labor then it doesn’t cost you anything. It is the HVAC company that has to suffer fetching it, yanking and replacing it again, etc. Basically they eat a shit-sandwich on the labor when they do warranty work ... then still get to deal wirh the warranty paperwork on the backend. Usually we buy warranty coils full retail then get a refund upon returning the bad part,

[afr]

Yes, 10 years for parts on new systems (if registered) or in California without registering... otherwise 5 years without registering. Parts that are replaced under warranty are generally not extended such that if you are 8 years into a 10 year warranty, you can expect only 2 years warranty on the part. Regardless, company has 2 years parts and labor. If you had to pay for the new evap coil, the coil should have a warranty for (5) years from the manufacturer.

Regardless, the two year warranty is good from the contractor in that you should not need to push for the warranty coverage if it even is an evaporator. If you have micro channel equipment, the condenser could be leaking. Never the less, the amount it leaked is not critical in that any system that got to 38sh and 1sc is quite low to the point it is not cooling within one year.

I would insist they come out and leak check the system. Dye is okay, but personally I have better luck with a sniffer or ultrasonic. Regardless, insist they do a leak search, and insist they leak search the evaporator if they do not go up and leak search it on their own. It seems to me the plan your contractor has is to give you some gas and get out of there to push you through the warranty period, and that is BS if that is the plan.

It would be different if they came and serviced it the first time and did not know it’s state of charge, BUT they knew they serviced it last to fix a leak AND they added refrigerant. Hence it is in fact low again, so you STILL have a leak meaning it was A) never fully fixed, B) there is another leak or new leak, or C) the new evaporator is defective. They owe it to you to A) finally complete the fix, B) point out a new leak, so you can pay to have it fixed, or C) warranty the evaporator if the new one is defective.

They need to get it fixed right, so next year your system cools and at most needs preventative maintenance (ideally).

How would I know if the installer truly has plans just to push me through the warranty period? Do I just come out and say I'd like them to test with a sniffer or ultrasonic? Wouldn't that be putting him on the defensive as though I did some research and am losing trust in him ? And what recourse do I have if that indeed is his plan? Do I bring in an unknown party to check the system?

[NETWizz]

How would I know if the installer truly has plans just to push me through the warranty period? Do I just come out and say I'd like them to test with a sniffer or ultrasonic? Wouldn't that be putting him on the defensive as though I did some research and am losing trust in him ? And what recourse do I have if that indeed is his plan? Do I bring in an unknown party to check the system?

This is where it gets touch because it is more about human nature than HVAC, so we do not have all the answers.

If I were going to push someone through a warranty period, I would quietly add quickly add some refrigerant and likely not even charge the customer. If I do not charge, I am less likely to get a complaint. Suddenly the system cools for hopefully the rest of the season at that point. The way you know is based on communication though. If I was your tech, I would add the refrigerant then tell you I added it, so you have working AC, it that something happened to the refrigerant in the system, so I am going to leak check it. I would assure you if it is the evaporator I would get the part ordered and changed again free of charge to you, but if it is something else I will show you the leak... that the leak search is a courtesy since we just worked on the system... You see, I would WANT to find that leak and show the customer it isn’t the evaporator coil again because then I could charge them for the repair and wash my hands of it if you don’t pay to fix it meaning I don’t even gas it up again unless you pay if I find a leak somewhere else. That said, if it is the evaporator I eat a shit-sandwich and go spend $ deposit on a new coil, bring it to your house and spend the next two to three hours changing it out all over again free of charge. I consume torch fuel And oxygen, dry nitrogen, Nylog, vacuum oil, 15% silver braze SILFOS, buy you a new filter drier, and provide any excess make-up refrigerant. Then I take the other coil back and maybe get paid in the next several weeks my deposit back.

I would certainly call the company and play dumb to give them the opportunity to voluntarily do the right thing. You might ask when they have down to come back, so you can take off work to be home. If they do not know what you are talking about... just say for the leak search you were going to do but didn’t have time when you gassed it up because it leaked out again while under warranty from the evaporator coil you changed.

Just be nice, but be firm. Insist on a leak search. Insist they find the leak because the system is not fixed and still leaks.

You can bring in another tech if you want, but that will cost you money for sure. That seems like only something you would do if they say they cannot find the leak or refuse to do the leak search. The. You would have it documented and let them know only if the other tech finds it is the evaporator leaking. First, I would just ask the original company to come out under warranty because if they treat you right, it should be free. If they find a leak somewhere else, it stops being free from that point forward. They will have done their part to either get the job or if you don’t fix it to no longer come out and gas it up for free anymore.