Inappropriate condenser fan motor?

[ANALYST1946]

Starting a new thread to make it clear what the current question is.

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Five weeks ago I first observed the "compressor started, fan not started" condition.

The compressor shut down after a short time. I watched the next few starts closely, and normal operation was observed. So I turned my attentions to other items on my extensive to-do list.

During the five weeks, I did not notice any abnormal operation of the heat pump, switching between heating and cooling (thermostat set to "auto").

Yesterday, I was again working near the outdoor unit, and observed another occurrence of "compressor started, fan not started".

Before calling for service, I like to be able to tell the tech equipment details, hoping to improve the chance of getting proper parts installed.

I located the parts list for YORK heat pump E1RA024S06D, which specifies fan motor
024-26067-010
RPM 1050
1/12 HP
.5 AMP FLA
frame 42Y

Installed in the outdoor unit, I found (nameplate data)
CENTURY F48SF6L5
RPM 1075
1/4 HP
1.8 AMP
frame 48Y

Based on what I have read, this seems like a wider divergence of specifications than is typically appropriate.

Are there situations where this jump of horsepower is necessary to fix a problem, or is this likely an improper substitution due to correct fan motor not readily available?

[pecmsg]

Do Not Tell the contractor what’s wrong, that’s what your paying for. It could be the motor it could be something else. Can’t tell without being there.

[ANALYST1946]

Do Not Tell the contractor what’s wrong, that’s what your paying for. It could be the motor it could be something else. Can’t tell without being there.

If everybody I might call were squared away and honest, I could make the call and leave them to it.

That's not the case, as is demonstrated by many of the threads I read here.

Learning some things and applying filters makes for better results.

[pecmsg]

I show up and you tell me what to do

I leave

And still bill you

[fliks]

To be honest since I am not hungry for the work I turn down calls such as this.

[ANALYST1946]

The purpose here is to assess the merits of repair versus replace. See my other recent thread.

Probabilities and guesses no matter who is looking at it. Ultimately I will have to decide who to call for what purpose.

Trying to determine what level of contractor professionalism was applied in the past is part of the process.

[ammoniadog]

Do Not Tell the contractor what’s wrong, that’s what your paying for. It could be the motor it could be something else. Can’t tell without being there.

Usually I would agree with this, but in this situation I definitely think ANALYST1946 should tell the tech that he thinks the outdoor unit might have the incorrect motor in it. Otherwise there is a high chance that it might be replaced again with another wrong motor.

If ANALYST1946's research was correct, then getting closer to OEM specs probably would be a good thing. If a motor is oversized and isn't allowed to work as hard as it was designed to work, extra heat will be created in the windings, which could lead to an early death. Going one size bigger isn't usually bad, but going from a 1/12HP to 1/4 HP is too big of a jump in my opinion.

If the larger motor also has an aftermarket fan blade on it that causes it to run close to FLA (1.8A) then it's not quite as bad. But if the larger motor still has the stock fan blade and draws closer to .5 amps then it isn't good.

[ANALYST1946]

If the larger motor also has an aftermarket fan blade on it that causes it to run close to FLA (1.8A) then it's not quite as bad. But if the larger motor still has the stock fan blade and draws closer to .5 amps then it isn't good.

This 2 ton unit factory specs call for a 2-vane 18-inch fan blade on 1/12 horsepower motor.
The 2.5 ton unit (same equipment series) factory specs call for a 3-vane 18-inch fan blade on 1/4 horsepower motor.

I cannot see any fan blade identification, but it is 2-vane, and looks like the original for 1/12 horsepower.

[pacnw]

Inappropriate condenser fan motor


What did it do that was inappropriate?

[Makeitcold]

The only time I would consider it viable and I have done it is when the fan blade hand-grenaded and a replacement wasn't available for a few days and all I had was a much heavier blade to get them by. Your unit is designed to move 1850 cfm thru the condenser to discharge the heat in the refrigerant and to cool that motor and they can overheat without it. Having said that my wife's grandmother has been running a motor twice the recommended hp for 6 years so someone proficient with a meter will have to be on hand as theres a lot of different part failures that could cause this

[Pnasty]

Some people stock generic parts on their trucks. Some techs are under educated. Some techs are lazy. Some techs are in it for a quick buck. Anyone of these can describe your tech. 5 years ago I was undereducated, my company only stocked generic parts, and they wanted us to knock out a certain number of calls in a day.
I’m sorry that motor was installed. You could ran to a manager about this, don’t know where it will get you. What I’m saying is if you are unhappy with the service you got than the only course is to try to get it fixed. Worst thing they can do to you if you ask to talk to a manager is ignore you. Then you should find a more qualified company.

[ANALYST1946]

You could run to a manager about this, don’t know where it will get you. What I’m saying is if you are unhappy with the service you got then the only course is to try to get it fixed. Worst thing they can do to you if you ask to talk to a manager is ignore you. Then you should find a more qualified company.

This motor install pre-dates my time with the equipment. Installer is unidentified.

Intermittent failure of fan motor to start led to investigation and discovery.

[Pnasty]

This motor install pre-dates my time with the equipment. Installer is unidentified.

Intermittent failure of fan motor to start led to investigation and discovery.

If that’s the case, insist on having OEM installed. That’s my new advice

[fliks]

The only time I would consider it viable and I have done it is when the fan blade hand-grenaded and a replacement wasn't available for a few days and all I had was a much heavier blade to get them by. Your unit is designed to move 1850 cfm thru the condenser to discharge the heat in the refrigerant and to cool that motor and they can overheat without it. Having said that my wife's grandmother has been running a motor twice the recommended hp for 6 years so someone proficient with a meter will have to be on hand as theres a lot of different part failures that could cause this

Agree

[beenthere]

At this point. Probably better off getting new equipment. No telling how many times it has done if since you saw it early last month(5-12-20). And what harm has now been done to the compressor.

[ANALYST1946]

18-month follow-up:

I gambled, and luck was on my side.

I tracked down the OEM motor on EBAY (cheap from a liquidator).
It came as a new motor in a beat-up factory box (new old stock).

The fan blade came off the shaft without trouble.

Connection was simple because motor and board had cables with matching (molex?) fittings.
TITAN HD 30+5 capacitor was installed.

The OEM motor ran at .5 amp, down from 1.9 amps for the suspect motor.

A review of electric bills revealed that the bill was lower by an average $8 per month compared to prior year.

The heat pump is still performing (at SEER 10 and HSPF 7?) at age 20 years.

As to sizing (2 tons for 820 square feet):

On June 27, 2021, we hit 112f. I ran a test with a low cooling target.
Heat pump cooled to 72f, did not even run continuously.
50 minutes on to go from 73f to 72f, 10 minutes off to go from 72f to 73f.

At 30f outdoors, 60 minutes on to go from 74f to 76f, 50 minutes off to go from 76f to 74f.
22 degree difference between return grill and supply grill at outdoor temperature 55f.
15 degree difference at outdoor temperature 27f.

The heat pump is so oversized that it has never needed electric strips to help out.
I didn't notice that it had a 1heat/1cool thermostat until outdoor unit problems arose (defrost sensor stuck closed),
and I needed to shut down outdoor unit and call for emergency heat.
Quickly upgraded to my favored ECOBEE3 to activate emergency heat.

[pecmsg]

18-month follow-up:

I gambled, and luck was on my side.

Remember The House ALWAYS WINS!

[VTP99]

Probably was the capacitor the whole time 🙄

[pecmsg]

Probably was the capacitor the whole time ��

18 months of cycling?

[mgenius33]

18-month follow-up:


The heat pump is still performing (at SEER 10 and HSPF 7?) at age 20 years.

Really? How exactly were these numbers calculated?