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Thread: Charging a system.

  1. #1
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    Charging a system.

    So I read that R-22 systems can be charged with vapour but R-410a bottles have to be flipped upside down to fill with liquid? But in the vapour line through manifold ? Confused here. Can someone give a step by step charging procedure of R-410a 3 ton split system for example ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whaleboy96 View Post
    So I read that R-22 systems can be charged with vapour but R-410a bottles have to be flipped upside down to fill with liquid? But in the vapour line through manifold ? Confused here. Can someone give a step by step charging procedure of R-410a 3 ton split system for example ?
    Charging with vapor is to protect a reciprocating compressor- to keep from slugging the pistons and valves. Scrolls don't care and can eat liquid while charging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highheadpressur View Post
    Charging with vapor is to protect a reciprocating compressor- to keep from slugging the pistons and valves. Scrolls don't care and can eat liquid while charging.
    Ummm...yeah no....they can take a little liquid but if you wash all the oil out of the sump of a scroll, the bearings will sound like a bag of rocks in a dryer pretty damn quick.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highheadpressur View Post
    Charging with vapor is to protect a reciprocating compressor- to keep from slugging the pistons and valves. Scrolls don't care and can eat liquid while charging.
    SCROLLS WILL DIE BY CHARGING WITH LIQUID

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    Pure refrigerants can be charged as a vapor or liquid.
    R-12, 22, 502, 11

    Blends Liquid only
    R-410A, 404A, 407A'B & C

    Its listed on the cylinder.

    Now the type of compressor and equipment determines also how its done

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whaleboy96 View Post
    Can someone give a step by step charging procedure of R-410a 3 ton split system for example ?
    The short answer is NO. This is an open forum. Here is a clue: when both pressures are at equal all action ceases
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

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  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechmanTerry View Post
    SCROLLS WILL DIE BY CHARGING WITH LIQUID
    ones with a accumilator I charge it wide open throttle

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    W/O an accumulator, charging liquid for 3-4 seconds, shutting manifold/drum 8-10 seconds,repeat is ok. But straight liquid is a killer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Pure refrigerants can be charged as a vapor or liquid.
    R-12, 22, 502, 11

    Blends Liquid only
    R-410A, 404A, 407A'B & C

    Its listed on the cylinder.

    Now the type of compressor and equipment determines also how its done
    So we use Copeland ZP20K6E PFV 830 scroll compressors in our condensing units.

    So would u burst little bits of liquid straight into the vapour line?

    or are you suppose to liquid fill on liquid side as the AC system is running ? Is that way even possible ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whaleboy96 View Post
    So we use Copeland ZP20K6E PFV 830 scroll compressors in our condensing units.

    So would u burst little bits of liquid straight into the vapour line?

    or are you suppose to liquid fill on liquid side as the AC system is running ? Is that way even possible ?
    Is it possible? Sure anything is possible.

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    it depends on the size of the unit also...lets say after a comp changeout. after vacuum of 450-500 microns..ill charge to system specs...if full weight goes in , great. i let it stabilize for 10 minutes..ill still do the same till it cant take no more and wait 5 minutes..then i add 4 oz at a time liquid..never had a problem. r22 responds rather quickly..r410a requires a bit more patience..

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechmanTerry View Post
    SCROLLS WILL DIE BY CHARGING WITH LIQUID
    Only if you put an excessive volume of liquid in at one time.

    I add liquid for 20 to 30 seconds at a time. And service compressors that I charged/topped off that way 14 plus years ago. Those compressors haven't died, nor are they loud.

    Can't flood it with liquid or all the oil will wash out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Only if you put an excessive volume of liquid in at one time.

    I add liquid for 20 to 30 seconds at a time. And service compressors that I charged/topped off that way 14 plus years ago. Those compressors haven't died, nor are they loud.

    Can't flood it with liquid or all the oil will wash out.
    Copeland approved or lucky?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whaleboy96 View Post
    So I read that R-22 systems can be charged with vapour but R-410a bottles have to be flipped upside down to fill with liquid?
    Whaleboy96, your profile says you are an HVAC Tech. So what part do you not understand? Maybe I misunderstand what you are asking? The ultimate reason why you vapor or liquid charge, has to do with the refrigerants. What type of refrigerant is R22? What type of refrigerant is R410a? Hint: it has to do with boiling points, how are they made.

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  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechmanTerry View Post
    Copeland approved or lucky?
    Copeland says to meter in the liquid. They never said to pulse it in.

    I've topped off/finish charged way too many systems that way, for it to be luck.
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  20. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Answer-Man View Post
    Whaleboy96, your profile says you are an HVAC Tech. So what part do you not understand? Maybe I misunderstand what you are asking? The ultimate reason why you vapor or liquid charge, has to do with the refrigerants. What type of refrigerant is R22? What type of refrigerant is R410a? Hint: it has to do with boiling points, how are they made.
    I've been liquid charging through the vapor side since the 80s. Vapor just takes too long. No matter what refrigerant it is.

    Does help to listen to the compressor when your liquid charging through the vapor line.
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  22. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    I've been liquid charging through the vapor side since the 80s. Vapor just takes too long. No matter what refrigerant it is.

    Does help to listen to the compressor when your liquid charging through the vapor line.
    I agree totally,been doin the same and never broke one. Use common sense, we're not lookin to see the discharge line frost.

  23. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    I've been liquid charging through the vapor side since the 80s. Vapor just takes too long. No matter what refrigerant it is.

    Does help to listen to the compressor when your liquid charging through the vapor line.
    Me too, I've been liquid charging since 70's. In the factory we liquid charged every single unit. But I read Whaleboys question differently than the rest of you

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    Do "we" have a contact to a Copeland Engineer? A word or several dozen words would clear up this "liquid dumping" into the suction of a Recip/Scroll comp,yes/no? I would concede to a Copeland Authorized Person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theoldscroll View Post
    I agree totally,been doin the same and never broke one. Use common sense, we're not lookin to see the discharge line frost.


    Remember being told by manufacturers tech trainers, and these guys were upper caliber, "your running that refrigerant through the manifold, a 1/4" hose, a valve core depressor & valve core, you'd have trouble slugging that compressor if you kept an eye on what going on." Yeah, that was in the 80's. Miss those no nonsense guys.
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

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