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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I keep mulling this concept. And more and more I think it has weight.

    Without it as a consideration - lots of things being done make less sense.

    The US Constitution itself (I am including the amendments) is being side-stepped and that establishes precedent - which is a dangerous thing. States Rights are being usurped - also establishing precedent for future reference.

    You mentioned 'getting involved' - historically people vote with their feet. It is not mere coincidence that people with any degree of mobility (money) are leaving the great lakes states, California, and the upper east coast. Most people don't want to 'get involved' in changing their present 'politics' - they mostly seem to simply go where they feel they will be treated better.

    PHM
    -----------
    I moved out of California and to a smaller and more conservative state. In California I attempted to have an influence on the system and took a beating and got nowhere. The state of California is totally controlled by the left wing democrats and they destroy anyone in he way of their agenda. No saving that state.

    Relocated to where I am now and got involved in local and state politics and am actually able to make a difference. That said, I am continually fighting the left wing democrats who come from other states, re register as republicans, pretend to be conservatives and get themselves into positons of power and then show their true colors. Flat out lie and misrepresent themselves in an effort to poison the system.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    I just want to clarify, are you suggesting virus containment? If so, that would have been great, but most experts thought that by the time CV was taken seriously in the US, it was too late for containment. That being said, I see no problem trying for containment, and then shifting to limiting the spread if containment failed. I guess you could say CN accomplished containment in Wuhan after the fact, but I see zero chance the US could have done as strict a quarantine, tracking as they did. (nor would I want to live in a country that could do what CN did)


    I would agree that science has become politicized, but would say that by a large margin, the right has done most of the politicizing thereof. The relentless attacks on science and intellectualism to me is clear, and I see this as "the evil of the right," as Brian83 would say about the left. There are other policies of the right I disagree with (war, debt, and corporate>citizen being the main reasons I generally don't vote GOP). But the anti-science / anti-intellectualism by the right I simply cannot forgive. Reading ARP just reinforces this to me.

    But we can agree to disagree on this one, as it is a subject all to its own.
    But isn't the Right merely reacting to the "science" endorsed & politicized by the Left to further their Agenda? This, of course, includes CC (but let's not open that can of worms here). Most reasoned (Right) perspectives in ARP and elsewhere aren't denying CC exists, but do dispute the conclusions drawn, since those conclusions are tailor-made for the usage of the Left to advance certain aspects of their Agenda, which, of course, includes Globalism (perhaps primarily).

    As to science itself (where I'm concerned)? I personally have always been fascinated and have a great respect for it. That doesn't mean that I embrace the idea that all drawn conclusions are correct. Science is the study of physics, etc., and is prone to error as is any other human driven endeavor. Add political agendas to the mix, and doubt of the results abounds.

    Another area of science that is controversial is evolution. There are reasons for this and other "science skepticism" that don't fall under the category of 'anti-science'.

    Are you asserting that science can never be in error, and/or influenced by 'unscientific' interests? Shouldn't there be a 'healthy' skepticism when political parties are endorsing those conclusions that advance their agenda? Especially when a primary element of politics is deception?
    Dem=Washington Democrat
    dem = the average citizen democrat
    Liberalism refers to a systemically corrupt ideology


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  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    I just want to clarify, are you suggesting virus containment? If so, that would have been great, but most experts thought that by the time CV was taken seriously in the US, it was too late for containment. That being said, I see no problem trying for containment, and then shifting to limiting the spread if containment failed. I guess you could say CN accomplished containment in Wuhan after the fact, but I see zero chance the US could have done as strict a quarantine, tracking as they did. (nor would I want to live in a country that could do what CN did)
    Yes, containment. I agree that it is hindsight and would have required having taken it seriously early on. Mistakes were made. As to China tactics, I agree that they would not have worked here. But I believe that when Trump banned incoming travel from China, he should have banned all international travel at that time and allowed those returning to the US to return, but be placed in quarantine. Again, imports could be allowed with certain widespread restrictions on both exporters and cargo.
    Dem=Washington Democrat
    dem = the average citizen democrat
    Liberalism refers to a systemically corrupt ideology


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  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    But isn't the Right merely reacting to the "science" endorsed & politicized by the Left to further their Agenda? This, of course, includes CC (but let's not open that can of worms here). Most reasoned (Right) perspectives in ARP and elsewhere aren't denying CC exists, but do dispute the conclusions drawn, since those conclusions are tailor-made for the usage of the Left to advance certain aspects of their Agenda, which, of course, includes Globalism (perhaps primarily).

    As to science itself (where I'm concerned)? I personally have always been fascinated and have a great respect for it. That doesn't mean that I embrace the idea that all drawn conclusions are correct. Science is the study of physics, etc., and is prone to error as is any other human driven endeavor. Add political agendas to the mix, and doubt of the results abounds.

    Another area of science that is controversial is evolution. There are reasons for this and other "science skepticism" that don't fall under the category of 'anti-science'.

    Are you asserting that science can never be in error, and/or influenced by 'unscientific' interests? Shouldn't there be a 'healthy' skepticism when political parties are endorsing those conclusions that advance their agenda? Especially when a primary element of politics is deception?
    I think what the left (which includes progressives) wants to do...
    Is put science on a pedestal... so folks will not question it...
    Which gives the left a free pass to advance their agendas, using science as a tool to validate the BS they are pushing.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I think the present US approach is prolonging the problem. Better that everyone possible get it, sooner rather than later, recover from it, and get on with their lives. The vast majority do not even present symptoms - let alone die from it. I keep running the numbers and they make less and less sense to me all the time.

    Why all the focus on how many people might die rather than on all the people who are / would be either unaffected or who have / would recover OK? To me the small numbers do not warrant the gigantic outcry and reactions. I more and more suspect a dark complexed gentleman in this woodpile.

    China probably did a lockdown in an attempt to avoid alerting the world - to keep it all quietly in house. Their primary interest was lost likely in preserving their economy by preserving trade with the outside world. It would not surprise me even slightly if they solved their infection problems by killing anyone with symptoms and quietly disappearing the bodies.

    All his non-political points aside - President Trump is well aware that he cannot continue his overall efforts unless he gains a second term. There isn't any question in my mind that appearing to be an effective leader in a crisis, whether it's real or imaginary, plays a part in his present posturing and decisions. I am not disputing that there is a compelling case for President Trump taking action - but it's not likely to be purely altruistic right now either. <g>


    PHM
    -------------
    The idea is to slow the spread as to not overwhelm the healthcare industry.. shortage of ventilators ...and meanwhile they can research possible meds to combat this.
    Left unchecked.. every where would be like New York and worse.
    When it hits nursing homes... they drop.
    People in Hospitals already in bad shape from something else can die by catching the virus.
    The only way to have 'choked' it out would have been martial law...come out of your house get shot.
    We know that wouldn't have worked..also with our porus southern border..outsiders would have come in anyway.
    Powerplants would have needed to operate..water plants..cops ...peoples meds often run out and can't be refilled until a prescribed date.
    Democrats would have rioted just for the sake of it anyway.
    Farmers have to go tend animals.
    Looters.
    Old people living alone that have to have someone help them everyday.
    There was just to many problems for a lockdown.
    Slow the spread has worked for alot of places...some places ignored it and it's spreading fast.
    Some that get it done self quarantine.
    If we had plenty of temporary hospitals with ventilators.. I say let we rip and get we done...Sadly the USA is lacking in hospital beds compared to most nations



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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    The idea is to slow the spread as to not overwhelm the healthcare industry.. shortage of ventilators ...and meanwhile they can research possible meds to combat this.
    Left unchecked.. every where would be like New York and worse.
    When it hits nursing homes... they drop.
    People in Hospitals already in bad shape from something else can die by catching the virus.
    The only way to have 'choked' it out would have been martial law...come out of your house get shot.
    We know that wouldn't have worked..also with our porus southern border..outsiders would have come in anyway.
    Powerplants would have needed to operate..water plants..cops ...peoples meds often run out and can't be refilled until a prescribed date.
    Democrats would have rioted just for the sake of it anyway.
    Farmers have to go tend animals.
    Looters.
    Old people living alone that have to have someone help them everyday.
    There was just to many problems for a lockdown.
    Slow the spread has worked for alot of places...some places ignored it and it's spreading fast.
    Some that get it done self quarantine.
    If we had plenty of temporary hospitals with ventilators.. I say let we rip and get we done...Sadly the USA is lacking in hospital beds compared to most nations




    If you can't see these, right click and select "View Image."

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    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

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  8. #33
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    I guess the ship with the hospital and the hospital in the park is for show then... Democrats pulling another stunt?

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  10. #34
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    Pretty much. Anything to take down this President / economy.

    If you look at the charts, deaths from the flu are precipitously low this flu season, but there's a big jump in deaths from the Chinese virus. Right now, it's more media hype than anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Guy View Post
    I guess the ship with the hospital and the hospital in the park is for show then... Democrats pulling another stunt?
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Pretty much. Anything to take down this President / economy.

    If you look at the charts, deaths from the flu are precipitously low this flu season, but there's a big jump in deaths from the Chinese virus. Right now, it's more media hype than anything.
    Saw this on another forum...

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...-not-required/

    Curious...

    Another thing:
    Reading multiple reports of hospitals that are all but ghost buildings, and hospital mgt are laying off employees...
    If this was a life/death pandemic... why are the hospitals not full and over-flowing???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Another thing:
    Reading multiple reports of hospitals that are all but ghost buildings, and hospital mgt are laying off employees...
    If this was a life/death pandemic... why are the hospitals not full and over-flowing???
    I guess the hospitals in Trump's old stomping ground in Queens don't count, along with many hospitals in other boroughs. This level of willful ignorance never ceases to amaze me. I try not to take it personally but it is difficult to understand how an individual who considers himself to be so superior can post such vile trash.

    So I was just wondering GA, do you ever look beyond your own backyard?
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

  13. #37
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    NY does have some particularly hot spots. One reason is due to the strong strain of the Chinese virus. But as a whole, with the whole country being averaged, the numbers are within the averages for a normal flu season.

    The Socialist Progressive Left and main stream media will take any opportunity to ruin the great economy we had going. After all, nothing else they tried worked; they'll easily take whatever they can get.


    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    I guess the hospitals in Trump's old stomping ground in Queens don't count, along with many hospitals in other boroughs. This level of willful ignorance never ceases to amaze me. I try not to take it personally but it is difficult to understand how an individual who considers himself to be so superior can post such vile trash.

    So I was just wondering GA, do you ever look beyond your own backyard?
    I do a triple evac with nitro to remove non condensables.

  14. #38
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    Saw an article recently...
    Seems NYC and NY state have some 'Chinese style wet markets'...



    Here we go again...
    If we had limited immigrants, and health screened them (like the USA USED to)...
    We would not have as much of an issue with CVD.

    Next thing...
    The lefties are gonna tell us the illegals have constitutional rights to better treatment than US born US citizens???
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

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  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Pretty much. Anything to take down this President / economy.

    If you look at the charts, deaths from the flu are precipitously low this flu season, but there's a big jump in deaths from the Chinese virus. Right now, it's more media hype than anything.
    Seattle must have also jumped in on the game in the beginning as well...I wonder if they killed the people themselves just to make the news?



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