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  1. #1
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    CV - If you were president.

    What would you do if you were president during CV? Many here seem to think that I am attacking Trump regarding CV, when in fact I have never said, nor do I think he has done some horrible job. Of course there are things done/not done I disagree with, but that would be the case regardless who the president was. The only thing I honestly think Trump has done poorly at regarding CV is communication. He seems to flip flop a lot, and there is a lot of confusion. But his communication has always been scattershot, and really he is in a lose lose position. I do not plan to vote for Trump in November, but he is my president. So with that in mind, I am curious what ya’ll would have done in his shoes?

    Of course it would have helped to have earlier/greater testing capability, so I would have put more resources into that early, but it is what it is.

    Personally, I do not understand why there are still commercial passenger flights. At this point it is in every state, so grounding them now probably wouldn’t do much. But I think grounding flights is the main thing not done, I would have done differently. I agreed with halting flights from CN. But once there were reports of community spread in other countries like SR, IR and IT, I would have given 1 more week of international flights and then stopped all international flights (except dedicated repatriation flights both in and out). And once there were reports of community spread here, I would have given the same 1 week for domestic flights, and then grounded flights. Flights themselves are flying Petri dishes, plus I think this would have put the different states on different timelines. As it is now, NY is the epicenter, but the rest of the nation is not far behind. If it was more clustered, then you can shift resources around the country instead of treating the whole nation simultaneously.

    Second, I strongly agree with Trump leaving up the bulk of the decision making up to the states, so air travel would have been the only thing (other than assistance like Trump did with naval hospitals) I would have the Federal government involved in. But having one consistent message across the nation I think would have helped also. Once there was community spread in the US, I would have suggested that mass entertainment gatherings like concerts, sporting events etc be canceled, but leave it up to local government to decide when to implement this. I also would have said that states should consider canceling less economically vital gatherings like church, bars etc based on their local circumstances. Closing essentially all of retail is such a huge deal, and it will take a lot to recover from imo.

    I also would have suggested the use of face coverings by the public depending on local population density/circumstances, people can use things other than surgical masks after all.

    Ultimately I do agree with the UK “herd immunity” approach, as I see zero chance we can keep quarantine until there is a vaccine or similar. So, imo, we have to accept that there will be deaths, death is part of life. And the healthcare system will be pushed to the limit, even triage decisions, like limiting care/ventilators to the elderly should be on the table. It is just a matter of keeping the “pain tolerable," and balancing economy/food on the table - with - healthcare stress /elderly. And I think the above would have helped keep that balance.

    I agree with Trump that the cure cannot be worse than the disease, and while it seems I take CV more seriously than most here, completely shutting down the economy comes with huge costs itself. And not just dollar costs. I think that an earlier harsher response, like grounding flights, could have potentially eliminated the need to shut down large swathes of the economy. I really worry for this country. The lack of respect of science by the right, and the lack of respect of economics by the left, are both incredibly scary to me.

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  3. #2
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    Finally a sensible post! To bad it won't stay that way. Let's hear the ideas.

    I really don't have anything to contribute as I think the President has done a great job excluding the excessive tweeting. To everyone's dismay he hit hard and fast. Wasn't popular. Brought in all the top people from their respective fields to tackle the problem. Not popular. Kept a positive outlook to calm the masses. Not popular AND drove the media crazy!

    On second thoughts he could load up a few planes with actor's and so called reporters and ship them to Italy. "Edit" Corn get's a front row seat in the first plane!
    Last edited by model m-man; 04-02-2020 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Forgot

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  5. #3
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    So maybe the problem with Trump is his optimism and the problem with the dems is pessimism. I don't think Trump can be faulted for not bringing on the doom and gloom. Trump is acting and the dems reacting.
    Let me be one of the first to take the thread off the rails.
    The only thing I would have done differently is taken time to chastise all the pork in the bill, on the MSM during primetime. For a guy that wants to drain the swamp, this was his perfect opportunity.
    The dems want everything equal across the board(except when it applies to them). Divide the $2.2B evenly 50 ways. Or, better yet divide it 330M ways. Let's show the US how stupid socialism is. Then, show them how great capitalism is. Supply and demand. NY needs more COVID-19 resources than let's say Montana. NY agrees to supply Montana with pastrami on jewish rye, and fresh bagels for eternity in exchange for a little bit of Montana's bail out money.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

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  7. #4
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    I said this in another thread and it had some dissension, also it would have been hard to implement but if done correctly would have had a much smaller impact on the economy.

    Rather than quarantining houses do it by town. The way I see it if a location has no virus then why close down most of the businesses? Everyone could still go to work and be productive. As long as no one with the virus comes into town the virus stays out. Sure supplies will need to be brought in and my need to go through some type of sanitizing process but if you keep the virus out the community it can stay "normal". There is also the issue of people that commute from one locale to another, unless they could work from home they would be laid off for a while. The more of the country you can keep "normal" the better off we all are.

    For the most part I think Trump has done a good job. I think a lot of the misinformation comes from leaders giving an assessment and the media putting that assessment into their own words. Whether this is by accident or intent I won't comment on here because either way it is what is going on. The contradicting information is always a bad thing in a crisis situation. It would be nice to have everyone on the same page but that is not American politics anymore.

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    I said this in another thread and it had some dissension, also it would have been hard to implement but if done correctly would have had a much smaller impact on the economy.

    Rather than quarantining houses do it by town. The way I see it if a location has no virus then why close down most of the businesses? Everyone could still go to work and be productive. As long as no one with the virus comes into town the virus stays out. Sure supplies will need to be brought in and my need to go through some type of sanitizing process but if you keep the virus out the community it can stay "normal". There is also the issue of people that commute from one locale to another, unless they could work from home they would be laid off for a while. The more of the country you can keep "normal" the better off we all are.

    For the most part I think Trump has done a good job. I think a lot of the misinformation comes from leaders giving an assessment and the media putting that assessment into their own words. Whether this is by accident or intent I won't comment on here because either way it is what is going on. The contradicting information is always a bad thing in a crisis situation. It would be nice to have everyone on the same page but that is not American politics anymore.
    Because there is people asymptomatic carrying the virus everywhere they go and can help spread the virus to others who may have a more vulnerable immune system.
    wHen I diE I hOpe gOd haS mErcy oN my SiNful LifE

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mofotech View Post
    Because there is people asymptomatic carrying the virus everywhere they go and can help spread the virus to others who may have a more vulnerable immune system.
    I understand that but if no one comes in and no one has it it will stay that way. The same goes for those that have it if they don't travel outside their community they don't spread it to anyone outside the community. It cuts both ways. If the community stays isolated it either stays out which may end up and be a bad thing for the next time or if it stays in the community everyone is exposed and build immunity so next time it is not as big an issue. The problem is the big cities would get hit harder than the smaller communities and it would be harder to isolate the larger ones and I don't know if you could isolate by section larger ones to minimize the affect of the virus.

  12. #7
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    Yes... one thing about this bug... and he is a crafty devil... is that someone can be walking around carefree... fit as a fiddle... and can be dropping that bug off everywhere he..or she.. goes.

    The biggest problem with a health crisis like this is that politicians are involved... and yes.. Trump is a politician. Politicians first concern in anything is getting re-elected and that is where they put most of the weight..if not all.. in their decision making.

    And given Trumps combative and vindictive nature... he just isn’t a good fit.

    Trump would have been better off recusing himself from any decisions and letting Pence and the health experts run this show.
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  14. #8
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    I would immediately isolate all the democrats placing them in the middle of the desert so they don't infect the healthy population.

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    I would immediately isolate all the democrats placing them in the middle of the desert so they don't infect the healthy population.
    Like normal you have nothing intelligent to add .

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  18. #10
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    Oh i realize that i did the same as you cool .

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  20. #11
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    We need a wartime consigliere.

    If we had done nothing in January - by now the vast majority of the people who got it would have been recovered from it already. Yes; some would have died - but the vast majority would Not have died.

    What has been done has irreparably destroyed millions of small business and those failures will ripple for years. Three weekends of blizzards in a row can bankrupt a small restaurant. All the food service workers - effed. All their landlords - effed. And the list goes on and on and on and also up through the economy.

    Throwing trillions of imaginary dollars at it is not going to remedy the basic issues.

    I would have mobilized every available US military resource, including all reserve personnel, to erect and maintain tent-cities of extra space for hospitals in hard-hit areas. I would have offered large incentives to any American business who would promptly produce any required medical supply material as well as large prize-money to whoever came up with a remedy, cure, or vaccine for this virus.


    PHM
    --------


    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    What would you do if you were president during CV? Many here seem to think that I am attacking Trump regarding CV, when in fact I have never said, nor do I think he has done some horrible job. Of course there are things done/not done I disagree with, but that would be the case regardless who the president was. The only thing I honestly think Trump has done poorly at regarding CV is communication. He seems to flip flop a lot, and there is a lot of confusion. But his communication has always been scattershot, and really he is in a lose lose position. I do not plan to vote for Trump in November, but he is my president. So with that in mind, I am curious what ya’ll would have done in his shoes?

    Of course it would have helped to have earlier/greater testing capability, so I would have put more resources into that early, but it is what it is.

    Personally, I do not understand why there are still commercial passenger flights. At this point it is in every state, so grounding them now probably wouldn’t do much. But I think grounding flights is the main thing not done, I would have done differently. I agreed with halting flights from CN. But once there were reports of community spread in other countries like SR, IR and IT, I would have given 1 more week of international flights and then stopped all international flights (except dedicated repatriation flights both in and out). And once there were reports of community spread here, I would have given the same 1 week for domestic flights, and then grounded flights. Flights themselves are flying Petri dishes, plus I think this would have put the different states on different timelines. As it is now, NY is the epicenter, but the rest of the nation is not far behind. If it was more clustered, then you can shift resources around the country instead of treating the whole nation simultaneously.

    Second, I strongly agree with Trump leaving up the bulk of the decision making up to the states, so air travel would have been the only thing (other than assistance like Trump did with naval hospitals) I would have the Federal government involved in. But having one consistent message across the nation I think would have helped also. Once there was community spread in the US, I would have suggested that mass entertainment gatherings like concerts, sporting events etc be canceled, but leave it up to local government to decide when to implement this. I also would have said that states should consider canceling less economically vital gatherings like church, bars etc based on their local circumstances. Closing essentially all of retail is such a huge deal, and it will take a lot to recover from imo.

    I also would have suggested the use of face coverings by the public depending on local population density/circumstances, people can use things other than surgical masks after all.

    Ultimately I do agree with the UK “herd immunity” approach, as I see zero chance we can keep quarantine until there is a vaccine or similar. So, imo, we have to accept that there will be deaths, death is part of life. And the healthcare system will be pushed to the limit, even triage decisions, like limiting care/ventilators to the elderly should be on the table. It is just a matter of keeping the “pain tolerable," and balancing economy/food on the table - with - healthcare stress /elderly. And I think the above would have helped keep that balance.

    I agree with Trump that the cure cannot be worse than the disease, and while it seems I take CV more seriously than most here, completely shutting down the economy comes with huge costs itself. And not just dollar costs. I think that an earlier harsher response, like grounding flights, could have potentially eliminated the need to shut down large swathes of the economy. I really worry for this country. The lack of respect of science by the right, and the lack of respect of economics by the left, are both incredibly scary to me.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

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  22. #12
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    I wonder...

    How folks with access to less than a few %... of the information the task force on CVD has...
    Could possibly understand the situation well enough to do as good or a better job.

    OK, now for an opinion:

    There is material out there suggesting China cheated...
    And I am not gonna believe, with all the intel gathering ability of our govt... that Trump did not know about this earlier.
    IMO we should have closed off air travel from China (and maybe all areas other than Canada) sooner...
    Perhaps limited air travel in the USA quicker...

    Problem there...
    Is the left and the MsM tried to make a fool of Trump for restricting air travel from China...
    When a leader has to look at the political issues as well as the real issues, when making a decision... the decision is never gonna be the best one.
    Now whose fault is the political BS that thwarted the best decision on CVD???

    We need to remember...
    Hind sight is always 20/20... yet nobody knows the future...
    So which one(s) of us, think we could have seen how bad it is on April 2... back in January???
    Honest answers only...
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  23. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidadavis View Post
    Personally, I do not understand why there are still commercial passenger flights. At this point it is in every state, so grounding them now probably wouldn’t do much. But I think grounding flights is the main thing not done, I would have done differently. I agreed with halting flights from CN. But once there were reports of community spread in other countries like SR, IR and IT, I would have given 1 more week of international flights and then stopped all international flights (except dedicated repatriation flights both in and out). And once there were reports of community spread here, I would have given the same 1 week for domestic flights, and then grounded flights. Flights themselves are flying Petri dishes, plus I think this would have put the different states on different timelines. As it is now, NY is the epicenter, but the rest of the nation is not far behind. If it was more clustered, then you can shift resources around the country instead of treating the whole nation simultaneously.

    I think that an earlier harsher response, like grounding flights, could have potentially eliminated the need to shut down large swathes of the economy.

    This ^. Only no slack (one week of int'l flights). Once CV was seen to be the highly, rapidly infectious disease it is, all international and interstate travel should have been shut down. This includes automotive, train, and air travel. Cargo shipping could continue with restrictions. No personnel from the ship leaves the ship, all offloaded cargo to be placed in a separate, isolating warehouse for decontamination.

    US citizens and legal immigrants could return via special flight and subject to a 3 week quarantine before being released, then special arrangement to allow them to travel to their 'home town'.

    I believe this would have prevented CV from hitting the states at all. Our economy may have taken a hit, but certainly not what shutting down all businesses and self-quarantining is going to have.

    Doctors and scientists would then have time to come up with a vaccine, providing synthetic immunity.

    The lack of respect of science by the right, and the lack of respect of economics by the left, are both incredibly scary to me.

    In most cases, the Right does respect science, but given that the Left has politicized science to bolster many aspects of their agenda, the conclusions drawn and presented are what result in 'skepticism'. IOW, the Left has corrupted science to suit their own purposes. Why would the Right believe any "scientific evidence" when it is endorsed by the Left to advance their own agenda?
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