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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    79
    Post Likes

    I am in a Panic please Help.

    I will try to be brief and to the point, this is a new build in Houston, Tx. This part is a garage with 2nd story apartment(800s/f).R value for spray foam in attic and under floor deck is R-21, Cellulose is R19 for 2X6 walls. This garage will in the coming months be attached to an addition that will connect the original bungalow to the garage. The HVAC for this apartment is separate. This is not really an apartment, it is just called that on the plan, it's more a mother-in-law, guest suite, with mini kitchen. Adult kid will be living here for the foreseeable future.

    I am specifically concerned about humidity.
    I am concerned about the units spec'd.

    This is the spec and description I received.

    We will provide ALL materials and labor (unless otherwise stated within bid) for the above stated work and provide 1 year warranty on labor and parts. Including: Condenser, Air Handler, 10KW, Copper, Duct Work (R8), Return Duct (R8), Box, Grills, T-stat, Copper Line Set, Insulation Ventilation: Bathroom and Kitchen . Install a 3 ton 14 Seer Trane & a 10KW Heater

    Googling 3 ton 14 Seer Trane & a 10KW Heater,I found the following system made up of several components.

    (1) Trane 3 Ton 14 SEER XR14 34000 BTU Single Stage Heat Pump 4TWR4036G1000A,
    (2) Trane 3 Ton 14 SEER 36000 BTU Convertible Air Handler TEM4A0B36S31SB,
    (3) Trane 10 kW (7.2 9.6 kW) Electric Heater BAYHTR1510BRKC with Breaker

    I asked for HVAC, talked about air conditioning, mentioned specifically that I wanted dehumidification added to the system, requested all equipment in conditioned attic space, asked about make up air with a gas furnace in the space. Can you tell I have been reading your forum for awhile? Never once was a heat pump mentioned, and it's electric, gas is cheap here.

    This thing is 3 Ton am I crazy of do I have a problem. I don't know what to do.

    Please advise, female senior citizen so layman's terms simplified would help.

    Christine

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Vero Beach, Florida
    Posts
    518
    Post Likes
    3tons on 800sqft?! Thats way oversized. Who came up with that number?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    9,814
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1584 View Post
    I will try to be brief and to the point,

    this is a
    new build in Houston, Tx.
    This part is a garage with 2nd story apartment( 800 sq.ft.).
    R value for spray foam in attic and under floor deck is R-21,
    Cellulose is R19 for 2X6 walls.


    This garage will in the coming months be attached to an
    addition that will connect the original bungalow to the garage.

    The HVAC for this apartment is separate.
    This is not really an apartment, it is just called that on the plan, it's more a mother-in-law, guest suite, with mini kitchen.

    Adult kid will be living here for the foreseeable future.

    I am specifically concerned about humidity.
    I am concerned about the units spec'd.

    This is the spec and description I received.

    We will provide ALL materials and labor (unless otherwise stated within bid) for the above stated work and provide 1 year warranty on labor and parts. Including: Condenser, Air Handler, 10KW, Copper, Duct Work (R8), Return Duct (R8), Box, Grills, T-stat, Copper Line Set, Insulation Ventilation: Bathroom and Kitchen . Install a 3 ton 14 Seer Trane & a 10KW Heater

    Googling 3 ton 14 Seer Trane & a 10KW Heater,

    I found the following system made up of several components.
    (1) Trane 3 Ton 14 SEER XR14 34000 BTU Single Stage Heat Pump 4TWR4036G1000A,
    (2) Trane 3 Ton 14 SEER 36000 BTU Convertible Air Handler TEM4A0B36S31SB,
    (3) Trane 10 kW (7.2 – 9.6 kW) Electric Heater BAYHTR1510BRKC with Breaker

    I asked for HVAC, talked about air conditioning, mentioned specifically
    that I wanted dehumidification added to the system,
    requested all equipment in conditioned attic space, asked about make up air with a gas furnace in the space.

    Can you tell I have been reading your forum for awhile?
    Never once was a heat pump mentioned, and it's electric, gas is cheap here.

    This thing is 3 Ton.
    Am I crazy of
    Do I have a problem.?
    I don't know what to do.

    Please advise, female senior citizen so layman's terms simplified would help.

    Christine
    You must ditch this proposal and the contracting firm.

    A Valid Proposal shall have equipment about 1/3rd of the proposed size.
    ______________________________ --- __ ~ 1- Ton Heat Pump with Air Handler
    __________________________ --- No furnace is necessary.

    My gmail address: racingdan11
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    26,284
    Post Likes
    Find a different contractor.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    9,706
    Post Likes
    Also include a small whole house dehumidifier like the Ultra-Aire 70H with the fresh air option. This is critical for filtered fresh air change and maintain 50%RH humidity during damp weather.
    Get advice on sizing a/c from other posters on this site. 3 ton is big.
    Houston is a challenging green grass climate for good indoor air quality and comfort.
    Keep us posted on issues.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dayton Oh
    Posts
    2,160
    Post Likes

    I am in a Panic please Help.

    Maybe if the apartment was made of glass it would be 3 tons.

    If you put a 3 ton system in that apartment you will have bad humidity problems because the unit wont run long enough. Humidity is removed when the unit runs for long periods of time. Units that are oversized dont run long. Since their so big they cool the air so fast the thermostat says okay Im good turn off after only 5 min of running. Not enough time to pull the moisture out of the air.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    27,233
    Post Likes
    The only way that will come even close to working would be to run the electric heat about 70% of the same time that the AC is operating. <g>

    As that would be so wasteful it would be stupid - you will need both far less cooling

    And a dedicated dehumidifying system. If you reduce the RH% to about 50-60% with a dehumidifier system the majority of your cooling will just be cooling the air.

    Whoever suggested what you listed is either ignorant, stupid, or malicious. Demand accurate HVAC engineering details. When you get them - please post them here.

    PHM
    ------------


    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1584 View Post
    I will try to be brief and to the point, this is a new build in Houston, Tx. This part is a garage with 2nd story apartment(800s/f).R value for spray foam in attic and under floor deck is R-21, Cellulose is R19 for 2X6 walls. This garage will in the coming months be attached to an addition that will connect the original bungalow to the garage. The HVAC for this apartment is separate. This is not really an apartment, it is just called that on the plan, it's more a mother-in-law, guest suite, with mini kitchen. Adult kid will be living here for the foreseeable future.

    I am specifically concerned about humidity.
    I am concerned about the units spec'd.

    This is the spec and description I received.

    We will provide ALL materials and labor (unless otherwise stated within bid) for the above stated work and provide 1 year warranty on labor and parts. Including: Condenser, Air Handler, 10KW, Copper, Duct Work (R8), Return Duct (R8), Box, Grills, T-stat, Copper Line Set, Insulation Ventilation: Bathroom and Kitchen . Install a 3 ton 14 Seer Trane & a 10KW Heater

    Googling 3 ton 14 Seer Trane & a 10KW Heater,I found the following system made up of several components.

    (1) Trane 3 Ton 14 SEER XR14 34000 BTU Single Stage Heat Pump 4TWR4036G1000A,
    (2) Trane 3 Ton 14 SEER 36000 BTU Convertible Air Handler TEM4A0B36S31SB,
    (3) Trane 10 kW (7.2 – 9.6 kW) Electric Heater BAYHTR1510BRKC with Breaker

    I asked for HVAC, talked about air conditioning, mentioned specifically that I wanted dehumidification added to the system, requested all equipment in conditioned attic space, asked about make up air with a gas furnace in the space. Can you tell I have been reading your forum for awhile? Never once was a heat pump mentioned, and it's electric, gas is cheap here.

    This thing is 3 Ton am I crazy of do I have a problem. I don't know what to do.

    Please advise, female senior citizen so layman's terms simplified would help.

    Christine
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    79
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Not me, the non professional homeowner, that reads this forum. I knew it was wrong, grossly wrong, but needed the reassurance so when I meet with the builder I have real information. Thank you, I didn't want to overreact.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    79
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    You must ditch this proposal and the contracting firm.

    A Valid Proposal shall have equipment about 1/3rd of the proposed size.
    ______________________________ --- __ ~ 1- Ton Heat Pump with Air Handler
    __________________________ --- No furnace is necessary.

    My gmail address: racingdan11
    Thank you for the visual aid. I should note, forgot to in original quote, the ceiling is partially vaulted to about 15 ft. the rest is 9'. The east wall is mostly windows and sliding glass door, very high quality etc. I will have black out drapes on these windows.

    I really don't think I want a Heat Pump, never had one. Also the addition, not yet started is about 1200 s/f, and the original bungalow is 1700 s/f. Both of those are one story. They will have their own HVAC system with dehumidifier.The elevation from the street appears to be a compound or cluster of building as opposed to one big mass. The addition and renovation design is not finished and is not under contract and while I thought I had all the details done before beginning this part of the project, I won't make this mistake again. Thank you for taking the time to advise.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    79
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Find a different contractor.

    seeing with builder either today or tomorrow and yes there will be a change, thanks for the courage.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    26,284
    Post Likes
    YOU choose the HVAC contractor and Choose wisely.

    Remember if the GC chooses them there loyalty is to the GC that give them work not you.

    Why no heat pump? There not that much more money and are 1/3 the operating cost of straight electric heat.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    79
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Also include a small whole house dehumidifier like the Ultra-Aire 70H with the fresh air option. This is critical for filtered fresh air change and maintain 50%RH humidity during damp weather.
    Get advice on sizing a/c from other posters on this site. 3 ton is big.
    Houston is a challenging green grass climate for good indoor air quality and comfort.
    Keep us posted on issues.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    You have advised me on my current house directly and indirectly, I always read your posts, humidity makes me sick. My husband used to say I have a temperature set point as I was alway uncomfortable. And yes I had researched Ultra-Wire 70H with the fresh air option and am glad to see I learned something as that is what you are recommending. I knew 3 T was way out of line. Houston is a challenge for sure. I have been here since 2009 and there has been a dramatic shift in climate here, more extremes now, verified by the old timers. You can be sure I will be back with questions for the rest of this project, mentioned in another reply.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
    Posts
    26,284
    Post Likes
    For a project this small a Ducted Mini Split is perfect. 1 maybe 1 1/2-Tons
    Variable speed
    Heat / Cool
    Quiet

    I would only recommend Elec base board as a back up source of heat in case of emergencies.

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