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  1. #131
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    If we are gonna discuss the GW/GC/CC mess (again)...

    GA wants to know why, with endless proof...
    The green crowd refuses to admit solar flare activity has an effect on earth's climate.

    SCIENCE proves it...
    Yet the green crowd that puts science on a pedestal does not want to accept it (they do not like the results)...

    Sorry... If we are gonna put science on a pedestal...
    Then we must openly accept ALL science...
    Not only the science that supports our agendas...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  2. #132
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    Thanks for this well considered and thoughtful post, Brian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    When I say I have a healthy skepticism of science, I am referring to the models. The predictions. Not that the earth has warmed. Not that there is a connection between green house gases. Etc.
    Which is exactly why I was so surprised that you'd hold up a model earlier in your effort to proclaim me a science denier. I'm like, who are you and what have you done with Brian?

    And I'm pretty sure that's the same opinion most(not all) here on ARP have. Many have stared exactly that. We aren't denying the science. We are skeptical of the models and predictions made by these men and women.
    Now here's where we we will heartily disagree! First off, to be fair, I never called out you are anyone as a science denier. Even when I said "yes you are", I was referring to you collectively, not you personally. Still, I hope that you understand that for every Brian and Tool, there is a GA and Coolwhip (and many others) that still say the whole thing is a hoax. As a matter of fact, your favorite carrot-top said "I don't believe it" when handed a report created by his own people.

    Not that I'm holding you responsible for what they have said. I am trying to describe to you a 'feel' thing, if that makes sense. I've never heard anything from you supposedly on-board folks that challenge those folks because, for the most part, they want what you want regardless of the science. No off-hand remark like 'you know what guys, this is one thing I disagree with the Trumpster on". And the only time I get a post like this from you, in my opinion, is when you feel that you need to make it.

    We don't deny the science. We are skeptical of the opinions and predictions made by enviro scientists and politicians based on the science. Not sure why this positions is so touchy with you. You'd think a guy like you who puts so much faith in actual science would applaud the right's skepticism of man's influence of that evidence vs the lefts blind acceptance.

    If you are who you say you are, you'd be pissed at the left for it using the science to push their over the top agenda. Seems to me, guys like me advocate for a reasoned, common sense approach.
    I have to say that this is disappointing. In the same way that I remember the history of our conversations about models, I expect you to remember that I share your distrust of models, and also, that, with few exceptions, I usually do not comment on the politics of this mess. Such is irrelevant to the science. You'd also remember that I don't necessarily favor liberal solutions. Every time we speak it's as if we've never spoken before.

    And much like this coronavirus crisis, the left is pushing their over the top, anti-capitalist, anti-American agenda...... and they are using/exploiting the science at hand to do so. Vs conservatives and guys like Trump understanding that crashing the economy would not only be worse than the virus, but also likely stand in the way of finding/funding treatments and cures for the virus itself.

    The scientific advancements we have had in the last 10 years of economic prosperity have been a big reason why this pandemic won't be as bad as it could have been. And keeping the economy from crashing right now will leave us in a better place in a year or year or two. That includes reducing the effects of the virus itself along with avoiding the death, famine, disease and misery that always happens during bad recessions. But the left doesn't care. They deny the science that shows what would happen. Their agenda is more important.

    Now.... am I a "science denier" pertaining to Covid-19? Or am I refusing to let those who exploit science to push a leftist agenda from making very bad decisions?
    No, I wouldn't say that you are collectively are science deniers with regards to Covid-19, more like human condition deniers. When people start dying around you, stress and fear become natural states. Those conditions are not generally considered to enable reasoned patterns of thought. It is scientifically demonstrated, doncha know?

    Further, consider the positions of the institutions involved. It seems to me that each of them, politicians, scientists and journalists would rather be 'caught', if you will, erring on the side of caution rather than the other way around. Wouldn't you want that as, say, a CEO of a news outlet?

    Finally, about the ever changing numbers; science at work, boys and girls. Entirely expected. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that. Not everything in life has to be about your obsessive little war, ya know.

    As for the rest, I believe I've already sufficiently addressed what needs to be said.

    In closing, I'd have to say that you don't 'feel' like you're on board to me. It's likely you don't care and it's my problem. Just saying. Everything is always in the negative to you or something like that. If you wish me to think that you're on board, I don't know... ACT like it or something? lol Please also remember that my views about ARP are also based on the many fine and very enlightening conversations that I've had here on the subject of biological evolution. *cough*

    It's going to tale a LOT more than this nice post to change my mind about ARP, I'm afraid.
    Last edited by scrogdog; 03-29-2020 at 04:08 AM.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Thanks for this well considered and thoughtful post, Brian.



    Which is exactly why I was so surprised that you'd hold up a model earlier in your effort to proclaim me a science denier. I'm like, who are you and what have you done with Brian?



    Now here's where we we will heartily disagree! First off, to be fair, I never called out you are anyone as a science denier. Even when I said "yes you are", I was referring to you collectively, not you personally. Still, I hope that you understand that for every Brian and Tool, there is a GA and Coolwhip (and many others) that still say the whole thing is a hoax. As a matter of fact, your favorite carrot-top said "I don't believe it" when handed a report created by his own people.

    Not that I'm holding you responsible for what they have said. I am trying to describe to you a 'feel' thing, if that makes sense. I've never heard anything from you supposedly on-board folks that challenge those folks because, for the most part, they want what you want regardless of the science. No off-hand remark like 'you know what guys, this is one thing I disagree with the Trumpster on". And the only time I get a post like this from you, in my opinion, is when you feel that you need to make it.



    I have to say that this is disappointing. In the same way that I remember the history of our conversations about models, I expect you to remember that I share your distrust of models, and also, that, with few exceptions, I usually do not comment on the politics of this mess. Such is irrelevant to the science. You'd also remember that I don't necessarily favor liberal solutions. Every time we speak it's as if we've never spoken before.



    No, I wouldn't say that you are collectively are science deniers with regards to Covid-19, more like human condition deniers. When people start dying around you, stress and fear become natural states. Those conditions are not generally considered to enable reasoned patterns of thought. It is scientifically demonstrated, doncha know?

    Further, consider the positions of the institutions involved. It seems to me that each of them, politicians, scientists and journalists would rather be 'caught', if you will, erring on the side of caution rather than the other way around. Wouldn't you want that as, say, a CEO of a news outlet?

    Finally, about the ever changing numbers; science at work, boys and girls. Entirely expected. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that. Not everything in life has to be about your obsessive little war, ya know.

    As for the rest, I believe I've already sufficiently addressed what needs to be said.

    In closing, I'd have to say that you don't 'feel' like you're on board to me. It's likely you don't care and it's my problem. Just saying. Everything is always in the negative to you or something like that. If you wish me to think that you're on board, I don't know... ACT like it or something? lol Please also remember that my views about ARP are also based on the many fine and very enlightening conversations that I've had here on the subject of biological evolution. *cough*

    It's going to tale a LOT more than this nice post to change my mind about ARP, I'm afraid.
    I'll take that as a compliment, not sure as how the rest of our buddies here take it.

    When they call it a hoax, or basically label it as such,... It's not that they really think the virus is a hoax, just that response is way over-blown and that in a sense being a "hoax". That is very valid opinion. Not everyone here is Mark Twain or Louis Lamour, but their opinions are just as valid.

    Close the gun-stores and pull over all cars with New York license plates,... huh? This is happening now, not the America I grew up in. ARP is partly a discussion forum and partly an opinion factory, even corny understands that much. I always say, "if corny gets it, she must be easy". LOL.

    There are currently 3- THREE cases of coronavirus in comanche county and indoor dining is outlawed by county ordinance. I have no Idea if this is the right reaction or not, it's very prudent, but we are not going to start doing this every flu season are we???

    There is a lot of room for discussion, and lots of need for free forums like ARP to have them.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

    "This is me, I'm not at home. If you'd like to reach me, leave me alone." Sherl Crow

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNME8EZ View Post
    Can you explain to me how Biden caught up to Sanders so fast. It seems like up to Super Tuesday Sanders had about half the delegates needed and Biden was 92nd out of a field of 89. Then like magic 90 candidates drop out of the race leaving Sanders and Biden with Biden having more delegates. Did everybody that dropped out give their delegates to Biden? That's the only way I can see this happening.
    The DNC worked their magic, same as they used for Hillary in '16.

    And, since dementia and the CV thing have basically ensured what was a 'sure thing Biden loss' anyway, you can bet the DNC will be looking to pull another rabbit out of the hat. For now, MsM is paving the road with more of their usual TDS rhetoric. They'd step it up, but they've already been at full volume for years.
    Dem=Washington Democrat
    dem = the average citizen democrat
    Liberalism refers to a systemically corrupt ideology


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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    The DNC worked their magic, same as they used for Hillary in '16.

    And, since dementia and the CV thing have basically ensured what was a 'sure thing Biden loss' anyway, you can bet the DNC will be looking to pull another rabbit out of the hat. For now, MsM is paving the road with more of their usual TDS rhetoric. They'd step it up, but they've already been at full volume for years.
    If they step it up any more (which they will at the end of the summer)...

    Even the folks with their heads in the sand... will realize how badly they are lying!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

    GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
    *Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
    *The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
    *Cheap is not good, good is not cheap; however expensive is not a guarantee of quality!
    Choose your contractor wisely!

  6. Likes vin lashon liked this post.
  7. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I'll take that as a compliment
    As intended. Though we are often opponents, Tool, I think I have a pretty good handle on where folks stand in an overall sense. For example when we were discussing man's ability to measure sea levels accurately. I see that as a legit inquiry. But, one must also temper their judgement based on what we have observed. What we have observed is not opinion, it it history. It really doesn't matter whether what we've observed was predicted well or not.

    I agree that there really isn't a way to know what's good right now. Still, let's try and give humanity itself a break in these times. We should recognize that the world medical community's performance throughout this has been nothing less than heroic. I can't say that I ever went to work in fear for my life. Even when there isn't sufficient items to protect them, they still go.

    They are deserving of the same respect respect and admiration that we all hold for all first responders in my opinion. Not that I think that ARP intent has suggested otherwise, only that we all need to do a better job in my opinion, including those outside of ARP. Trump has actually done pretty well with this, but I'm still not feeling it like I should be.
    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell

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  9. #137
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    ............

    There are currently 3- THREE cases of coronavirus in comanche county and indoor dining is outlawed by county ordinance. I have no Idea if this is the right reaction or not, it's very prudent, but we are not going to start doing this every flu season are we???

    ..........

    It’s now 11 (nearly 4x higher).
    If it was business as usual the count would be much higher as it spreads Exponentially.

    What makes COVID-19 so dangerous is that the infected don’t exhibit symptoms for some time & thus inadvertently spread it.

    Social Distancing curbs the spread dramatically.
    Eric

  10. #138
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    Thread Starter
    This is interesting......

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...cover-covid-19

    Sounds like someone's got some 'splainin' to do.

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  12. #139
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by ESokoloff View Post
    This is interesting......

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...cover-covid-19

    Sounds like someone's got some 'splainin' to do.

    But wait, there’s more.....
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-blame/608332/
    Eric

  13. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESokoloff View Post

    Yup and, there is also this...

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/world...eid=6649d786eb
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  14. #141
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    A lot of things will never be the same post-CV. One of them is how the US views, interacts and handles China.
    Dem=Washington Democrat
    dem = the average citizen democrat
    Liberalism refers to a systemically corrupt ideology


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  15. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by vin lashon View Post
    A lot of things will never be the same post-CV. One of them is how the US views, interacts and handles China.
    I was personally very, very unhappy when Nixon first went to China and opened up our relationship and trade with them. I knew back then (I am an older guy) what a long term mistake that was going to be. And, here we are. They have screwed us in multiple ways and not this. We should never have brought them into the modern era.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  16. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    I was personally very, very unhappy when Nixon first went to China and opened up our relationship and trade with them. I knew back then (I am an older guy) what a long term mistake that was going to be. And, here we are. They have screwed us in multiple ways and not this. We should never have brought them into the modern era.
    For too long, we've allowed them to steal our tech, military secrets, given them classified info, favored nations trade status, all while they were slipping the knife in. I think that's behind us now. At least until a Dem wins the WH. I guess I'm racist for the analysis.
    Dem=Washington Democrat
    dem = the average citizen democrat
    Liberalism refers to a systemically corrupt ideology


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